Oct. 18, 2023

289: NCA- Analyzing New Regulations, Champions Conference, & More w/ Joe Trauger

Get ready to join us with our esteemed guest, Joe Trauger, CEO of the NCA National Club Association. Joe has some news about the NCA's Champion Club Conference happening this November 13th. The conference is all about hosting an elite golf championship at your club! Joe also gives us a sneak peek into the future of the National Club Association and how it plans to bring clubs closer together.

Now imagine, as a private club leader, how it would be to have a better understanding of legislative and regulatory changes. Well, the NCAA is making it a reality by operationalizing government relations. During our discussion, we particularly focused on the Department of Labor's proposed rule to raise the minimum salary threshold for overtime exemption. Wondering what impact it could have on your club?

But it's not all rosy. There are tough topics to address too. One of them is employee demotions and future regulations. The Department of Labor's proposed overtime threshold rule could lead to the demotion of several managers or supervisors, impacting their morale and self-esteem. We also ponder over the financial implications this rule could have on clubs and how changing independent contractor regulations could affect budgets.
Want to know more about how these new rules and regulations might shake up the private club industry? Then, this episode is a must-listen for you!
To learn more about the NCA head on over to
NationalClub.Org

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01:10 - NCAA Champion Club and Future Vision

10:00 - Operationalizing Government Relations for Private Clubs

14:21 - Employee Demotions and Future Regulations

25:52 - Future Guest and NCAA Discussion

WEBVTT

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Welcome back to Private Club Radio.

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I'm your host, denny Corby.

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This episode we have an NCAA update with our friend, joe Trauger, ceo over at the NCAA National Club Association.

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We learn about the NCAA's Champion Club Conference coming up November 13th.

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It is a one-day conference all about hosting an elite golf championship at your club.

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For the first time, the National Club Association is bringing together leaders from clubs that have hosted golf championships and connecting with clubs that want to host golf championships.

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It's going to be a really fun day of collaboration, networking and information sharing.

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We're going to hear from Colin Burns, apogee Golf and former GM of Winged Foot Golf Club, robbie Zausnick, former USGA Senior Director of Player Services, kevin Bosata from Augusta National Golf Club and Jeffrey Craefle I think I butchered your name, I'm really sorry From Congressional Country Club, and we learn a couple new words from Joe, including gigification and caddiedum.

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Let's welcome.

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Ceo of the NCAA, joe Trauger.

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Welcome back, joe.

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Thanks for being on here.

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So what's new in the NCAA world?

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Well, thanks, andy, it's always great to be with you.

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So we've got a lot of things happening at the National Club Association and we're pretty excited about it.

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We just came off of having our board meeting up at the country club in Brookline on the 27th of September and we're completing my first year as the CEO, playing that role and looking toward the future, looking a little bit backwards, seeing what's been working, what's not been working and things we can improve, and really just during the board meeting kind of laid out a vision for the National Club Association, what we're going to be and how we're going to achieve our objectives.

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So it's been a lot of, you know, good, fun, exciting conversations and we're just really looking forward to the next year as an organization.

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You know, we do have a couple of things that we're trying differently right off the bat.

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We have a new championship club conference that we're putting on on November 13th, that is.

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We have some notable speakers that will be joining us.

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We have Colin Burns, who's, of course, the former GM of Wingedfoot, a host of a couple of US Opens.

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We have Kevin Bosato, who's the clubhouse manager at Augusta National Golf Club.

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He's going to talk a little bit about the patron experience and service excellence and we have Jeffrey Creeful with at the Congressional Country Club.

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So obviously they've done a number of major tournaments and, yeah, we're looking forward to a great conversation.

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It's going to be held at Army Navy Country Club on November 13th and that'll run from 10am until 4pm with some social you know sort of networking events and discussions afterwards.

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So that's exciting.

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That's a new launch event for the National Club Association and really what we're trying to do is, you know, as clubs consider whether they're going to host a championship and it could be anything from the PGA Tour event, lpga, corn Fairy, epson Tour, usga qualifiers, usga, you know, amateur events could be a state golf championship, things like that.

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There's a lot of things that go into those, those putting on those events and a lot of things that board members need to consider as they decide whether or not they're going to, you know, relinquish their club for a week or whatever period of time they need in order to hold those events.

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And you know, we get into some infrastructure changes and course design changes and things like that that also board members need to consider.

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So what we thought would be a good idea is to get a group of folks together that have put on these events and talk about all of the things that go into hosting, you know, an elite level golf tournament or championship and have a discussion about it.

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And you know we're again, it's a launch event, so we're we're kind of we're kind of excited ourselves to see how it goes.

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So but I think it's going to be a good conversation.

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There have been other, you know, meetings that are similar that have happened, you know, as part of CMA, and other more informal, I think, formats.

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But this is, I think, you know, what we're trying to do is create a dedicated forum to have those conversations and bring people together and talk about the, you know, challenges and opportunities that holding these events happen for clubs.

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I like that.

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I like that a lot.

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That's really good and I think, you know, going into the, moving into the future a bit the more, I'm just seeing not just the club world but all industries.

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It's these very niche, micro I don't want to say conferences, but workshops, you know, whatever you want to call them because they realize it's such a specific thing but it's so, so important and just having those groups of people together and having that knowledge, that brainpower is yeah, yeah and one of the things that is really, I think, is one of the big roles that the National Club Association can play within the club community is really to be the convener to bring folks together to talk about experiences, their experiences, you know, because a lot of clubs, you know they have the same challenges and you know we can all learn, each learn from each other's experiences, and that's, you know, one of the big roles I see for the National Club Association going forward is to be that convener for, you know, for clubs, and when I say clubs, I'm thinking of, you know, not only the general managers who have the day-to-day operations of the clubs that they are responsible for, but also the club leadership.

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So you know, club board members, club committee members, club presidents, executive committee members you know there's a lot of things that they wrestle with on a, you know, a regular basis that they could use more information, you know, to make those decisions.

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And it sort of lends itself, I guess, at this point to kind of explaining what my vision for the National Club Association is going forward, which is that I really want the National Club Association to be the connection that private club leaders have with the overall, the broader club community.

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You know we can talk about other associations that are connections for the broader club community, for general managers and you know the management, core superintendents and the various professions within the club, but you know there's no.

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I think the NCA really should play that role for the board members and the members of clubs themselves.

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So that's really, you know, part of the vision I have for the club association going forward is that we want to be that connection for club private club leadership to the broader private club community.

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So you know it's a I think it's a lofty goal, something that you know you don't know if you're ever really going to achieve it, but it's something that we really want to try to achieve and move towards.

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You know, and I think we have the resources and the expertise available to serve that role.

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You know we have the club director magazine which is, I think, one of the marquee, if not the marquee, publication within the private club community.

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So we'll use that as a vehicle to build and really cement that connection for private club leadership Like though.

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Congrats coming up on your one year here at the NCA.

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You know, what do you think have been some of the biggest challenges in learning experiences?

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You know, can you maybe talk about that, because I think that's pretty interesting and I think hearing your point of view would be really insightful.

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Do you mean challenges as far as the new CEO or for the club?

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community, or Well, I think to me I kind of like having given you that openness, because challenges for me is different than challenges for you.

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So, you know, I always think it's hey, maybe what were some of your expectations?

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Were there any challenges that you did not even think about?

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That you're like this is a thing, or this is, you know, harder than I thought, or this is maybe easier than I thought.

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Or like, hey, this is like the big, like Tiffany, I had, you know it's been you know almost one year.

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What's what's been?

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the yeah.

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I think, if there was a challenge I would point to and I think you know one of the things I talked to the board about is really trying to it sort of goes back to my previous answer or previous discussion trying to cultivate that sense of national club association, is that connection to the broader club community for private club leadership.

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Like I said, it's a lofty goal and it's difficult to take something that's intangible and make it tangible.

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So I do think that that's a challenge.

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I do think that there's some things that we can do better as an organization.

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One of the things I talked to the board about was I use the term operationalizing our government relations a little bit more.

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By operationalizing what I mean is taking concepts and issues that we face here in Washington, whether it's legislative or regulatory, and really making a concerted effort to translate how that affects a private club and how private club board members need to understand these issues and absorb these issues, because they will eventually affect how the club is run, the financial position of the club, potentially in other issues.

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So I'll use an example and this is really kind of the test case that we're using.

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The Department of Labor I think it was about a month ago released a proposed rule that would change the threshold for the minimum amount you have to pay an employee to consider them exempt from overtime.

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So right now, currently the overtime threshold again that's the minimum amount of salary you have to pay an individual to be exempt from overtime is a little over $35,000 a year.

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But the Department of Labor wage an hour division is saying is that they want to increase that minimum threshold from $35,000 to at least $55,000 and potentially over $60,000.

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So they're not going to change the duties test or how they calculate commissions as they get as part of that overall threshold number, which is a whole another bucket of issues for private clubs.

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But how do we take that information and translate it in such a way that a general manager or a club president who interacts with the National Club Association can share that information with the board and also prompt a discussion about what that means for their individual club and what they need to do to prepare for any changes that are coming about?

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So what we've done is we've taken what is now a proposed rule, going through the comment period, that kind of thing.

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We've provided a kind of a one-page background on the issue and then we've included some questions, things that club leaders need to think about in terms of the regulation and what potential impact it has on the club and spur that conversation within the boardroom or within the management team, those types of things, so really operationalizing it.

00:12:14.024 --> 00:12:40.172
And then, obviously, as an organization that interacts with the Department of Labor and Congress, we're hoping that individuals provide us the feedback that, hey, this is going to affect our clubs by effectively demoting four of our employees who were previously exempt and put them in an hourly category where now we have to limit their hours and all of that kind of stuff in order to avoid paying overtime.

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That kind of information is important for us in the sense of making sure that the Department of Labor or the legislators understand the impact of these regulations or legislation on our business.

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So it's really kind of trying to create more of a two-way street, but the main focus is really trying to translate from an operational perspective what these things mean for club board members and club management going forward, and that's the scratch on the surface.

00:13:12.173 --> 00:13:18.335
No, I know that's what a bump 35 to 55 to 60.

00:13:18.335 --> 00:13:19.782
Holy gnolly.

00:13:20.404 --> 00:13:53.033
Yeah, okay, yeah, and it's effectively I mentioned it in context with the backgrounder but it's effectively taking a whole cadre of employees that were previously considered managers or supervisors or salaried professionals and effectively demoting them and saying you're no longer a professional and, simply because of some numerical number that we're going to cut it off, you're demoted.

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Now you're an hourly employee, you have to track your hours, you have to check in, you have to check out and, by virtue of that, we need to make sure that you're not getting overtime.

00:14:02.630 --> 00:14:11.072
So really, I think hamper is the individual growth of employees that clubs really want to foster.

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So it's a difficult issue and one that I think clubs around the country are going to have to wrestle with.

00:14:21.868 --> 00:14:23.673
Yeah, and I've been put together the pieces.

00:14:23.673 --> 00:14:39.205
It's not just that financial aspect, it is the morale, it's that self-esteem, it's mentalness of the whole sort of I don't want to say game, but going into it and having ownership and pride and who you work for and what you do.

00:14:39.205 --> 00:14:44.236
Wow, yeah, you're right, just scratching the surface, holy holy.

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Yeah, and it also affects clubs do have a seasonal aspect to them, and if an employee works a tremendous amount of hours during season by effectively demoting them, that now means that they're going to earn less money just by government fiat and it's problematic and we just need to be thoughtful about how we go forward with implementing this in the club sector.

00:15:19.750 --> 00:15:21.011
We don't have a final rule yet.

00:15:21.011 --> 00:15:25.869
We probably won't see one until, I think, december, january at the earliest.

00:15:25.869 --> 00:15:37.557
The comment period ends on November 7th, but yeah, I mean, this is something that will happen, it's just a matter of time and timing.

00:15:37.557 --> 00:15:47.471
So, yeah, I'm thinking December, january, would be the earliest that we'd see a final regulation, and then you'd have probably a couple of months before it actually goes into effect.

00:15:47.471 --> 00:15:56.277
So come March, april, maybe May, we'll be having to implement these issues across the country.

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And that probably affects 24 budgets.

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I'm sure that affects everything that people are doing now and getting ready for.

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I'm sure that puts a twist in the term what they call a nut in the road, or people call it yeah, now I'm a tiny bit dumb at this.

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I'm assuming possibly that would also affect benefits and health.

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Would this also affect those sort of things?

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When you take somebody from a salary down to hourly, does that affect things?

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Or maybe is that more, maybe statewide?

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It could.

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I think that's really more situational and not something that we'd necessarily be able to say as a blanket statement.

00:16:44.087 --> 00:16:48.975
Yeah, I mean it potentially could.

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We'll get into a situation where if somebody's near that cusp, say they're making 50,000 now, clubs might decide, okay, well, we'll just bump them up to 55 or 60 or whatever that number is, in order to continue to consider them exempt.

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What do you do for folks that are at that lower level where you can't make that jump very easily?

00:17:13.135 --> 00:17:17.633
Yeah, I mean, as you mentioned, there's some morale issues.

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There's going to be some difficult conversations ahead for general managers and boards and how they deal with this.

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So you know, our job, I think, from my perspective, is to help clubs anticipate these things and prepare them to.

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You know, ask the right questions Any other.

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I don't want to say issues but topics that might affect.

00:17:43.361 --> 00:17:49.584
You know, coming up the end of 23 into 2024, you know that puts a little fork in the road.

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Are there any other topics that are kind of coming to mind that should be aware of for 24?

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There are.

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We're anticipating a final rule on the independent contractor regulation from the Department of Labor as well.

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That really could be finalized, you know, any day.

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And of course that's an issue we've been wrestling with for years, you know.

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And the difficulty in this is, yes, we can anticipate when these rules are going to come out and implementation and all of those kinds of things.

00:18:20.029 --> 00:18:26.185
But there's also a litigation aspect to these where you know they very well could end up in litigation.

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I think that's almost 100% certainty for the independent contractor regulation.

00:18:31.071 --> 00:18:39.194
I think there's a you know, less than 100% on the overtime threshold, but I would anticipate there would be some litigation around it.

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And then that throws a you know, a monkey wrench into things too in terms of implementation and does it go into effect?

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Where does it go into effects?

00:18:48.136 --> 00:18:52.737
You know, are some states exempt from it because of a judicial order or some, you know.

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So we just have to keep an eye on these things and you know we'll do our best to make sure that National Club Association members are aware.

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And you know we do that through a series of things.

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We have our Washington Weekly update, which goes out every Monday or Tuesday whenever Congress is in session and then we also do member alerts.

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So if something really important happens, a new regulation is announced or something goes into effect, or even some you know announcements about the economy and jobs numbers, those types of things, what we try to do is send out a member alert so that our folks are at least get a heads up that you know something's happening or you know this has happened and you should just look into it further.

00:19:37.288 --> 00:19:40.315
And can you summarize the independent contractor bit?

00:19:41.565 --> 00:19:57.414
So the independent contractor regulation has been, as I mentioned, an ongoing battle for some time and it really what it centers on is whether or not somebody who is providing a service for an employer is considered an independent contractor or an employee.

00:19:57.414 --> 00:20:17.458
The state of California has gone through you know their process with a three-pronged test to determine whether or not somebody is an employee, and really what it boils down to is these tests that the Department of Labor and the State Department of Labor in California.

00:20:17.458 --> 00:20:31.392
They really skew towards making somebody an employee as opposed to an independent contractor and it's really trying to get at the if I can make up a term the over-gigification of the employment space.

00:20:31.392 --> 00:20:36.929
You know, think about Uber and Lyft and you know those types of apps.

00:20:36.929 --> 00:20:45.248
So it's really trying to force employers to consider people employees as opposed to independent contractors.

00:20:46.068 --> 00:20:49.778
The Trump administration did try to go through and change that definition.

00:20:49.778 --> 00:21:23.039
That was stripped by the Biden administration when they came in, and if there's one sort of explanation I could give for the way that they would like to go with this regulation is that, essentially, if the employee or if the person is providing a service that is a core function of or core purpose of the employer, they're going to be considered an employee.

00:21:23.039 --> 00:21:32.117
That's really what it boils down to, and where it really has affected clubs is for caddies.

00:21:32.117 --> 00:21:48.973
Caddies have historically been considered independent contractors, and by historically I mean I mean since the beginning of caddydom, you know in the early 20th century, and you know some.

00:21:48.973 --> 00:21:52.540
Some clubs have brought them in-house and made them employees.

00:21:52.540 --> 00:22:08.336
Others continue to operate on an independent contractor basis or you know, they'll hire a third party that hires caddies, and you know we and provides them to the, to the club for for their services.

00:22:08.336 --> 00:22:18.682
So there's different approaches that clubs can take, but the the nut of it all is really based upon federal regulation through the Department of Labor.

00:22:19.390 --> 00:22:22.398
So I mean caddydom and gigification.

00:22:22.398 --> 00:22:23.652
This has been.

00:22:23.652 --> 00:22:27.480
It's caddydom in actual word, or do you just throw?

00:22:27.480 --> 00:22:28.402
Throw that one out there too.

00:22:29.390 --> 00:22:31.916
I'm scared if I have started with gigification, I'm sure caddydom.

00:22:31.916 --> 00:22:42.800
Getting back to the organizational side of things, obviously you mentioned the new club or championship club conference is something that we're very excited about.

00:22:42.800 --> 00:23:04.721
We're also looking at other things that we're going to be doing differently as the National Club Association really trying to engage private club leadership, so the boards, on a more regular, ongoing, sustainable basis, and we have some mechanisms that we're working in putting together to help us accomplish doing that.

00:23:04.721 --> 00:23:14.878
So, yeah, I mean, I think we're we're at a stage right now where we've we've, I think, done a good job in the last year or two.

00:23:14.878 --> 00:23:32.359
Of you know, looking at what it is, the National Club Association is who we serve and we're at that exciting stage where we're starting to launch new products and and really trying to do that outreach and and get folks engaged with with our organization.

00:23:33.221 --> 00:23:33.362
Love.

00:23:33.362 --> 00:23:34.778
It All right, sir.

00:23:34.778 --> 00:23:36.150
Thank you so much for being on.

00:23:36.150 --> 00:23:41.997
You're going to be on more in the future, yes, and talk to you soon.

00:23:41.997 --> 00:23:43.394
Thanks for being on.

00:23:43.394 --> 00:23:46.797
Thanks, danny, hope you all enjoyed that episode.

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If you're interested in more about the NCAA, head on over to nationalcluborg, as well as our Dodglal.