Feb. 26, 2024

328: Heroes, Biographies, and the Irish Experience w/ John McCormack CCM

This episode brings us right into the heart of club life, from an eye-opening encounter with a mafia incident to the magic of transforming club events with humor and illusion. We're joined by industry expert John McCormack, CCM from Club Benchmarking EMEA, who sheds light on how the best clubs innovate while honoring their traditions and fostering a sense of belonging among members.

Dive into stories of serendipity and inspiration, from a life-changing job offer in the Caribbean to the insights gained from reading biographies.

This journey through tales of unexpected friendships and pivotal career moments underscores the value of seizing opportunities and the transformative power of education in club management.

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00:00 - Club Community and Networking Experiences

05:38 - Meeting Heroes and Sharing Stories

12:23 - Traveling to Vegas and Club Benchmarking

23:25 - Passion and Innovation in Club Industry

WEBVTT

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There was a mafia hit not too far away from the common.

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The day before we arrived there were two mafia guys shot in a restaurant, yeah, so that kind of gave us a wake up to think where are we now?

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We're not in Ireland anymore.

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Hey everyone, welcome back to Private Club Radio, your industry source for news, media updates, trends, whether it's communications and marketing, branding, leadership, mentorship, management, food and beverage governance you name it.

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We go over it here.

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I'm your host, denny Corby.

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Thanks for being here.

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Before we get to the episode, I just want to have a shameless plug for myself.

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If you or your club is looking for some fantastic entertainment, I have the Denny Corby experience Stand Up, Magic, mindy and Comedy Show.

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There's excitement, there's mystery.

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Also, there's magic the most fun your club is going to have.

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That aside, I want to talk about our guest for this episode, john McCormick, ccm, who is part of Club Benchmarking EMEA, europe, middle East and Africa.

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He is currently, and has been for a while, based out of Dublin, ireland, if you can't tell from his accent, but he and I formally met at the PGA show.

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I can't remember if it was from Gareth Macklin or somebody else, but we got linked up and then we ended up having dinner that night.

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It was me, him, jim Butler, jason Becker, Spencer Potler.

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There was a really good group of us and I have been known to say it's people's birthdays when it isn't, and I just got to say it was funny because I did it to Jim Butler and he took it like a champ but he did not look amused.

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I have video, maybe I'll post it somewhere.

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But me and John have a great talk, as he has a robust background, a tremendous experience in the club and golf world, in the hospitality world, has been in it for many, many, many, many years and I don't know why I'm saying this.

00:02:04.750 --> 00:02:08.947
But if I were to say, if there was a word that sums up this episode, I think it's going to be community.

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Community Because he and I chat about.

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You know, my favorite question to ask is how do you balance tradition and innovation?

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Because everyone's response is different and everyone takes it differently and I think that's why I like asking it, because it is a really nice starting point and you can kind of see where people's heads go with it.

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But you know, and it's about, to me it's how it's staying relevant in today's world, which I think is extremely important.

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But when I say community, he is so involved in the club world, drinking the juice hard from you know CMA, he has a CCM, but you know a huge part of this in helping grow the CMA and just does so much for the club and the club community.

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We talk about books, we talk about authors, biographies and really how just you know being a part of the community and being helpful and going to and being a part of associations and not only provide valuable learning opportunities but also to help expand your network.

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One of my favorite quotes is your network is your net worth, which I think is fascinating, and just by who, the people you keep around you and who you know.

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Oh, there's a really good.

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There is another good quote.

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Years in, my dad told me this.

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I don't know whose quote it is, but he told me it's not who you know, it's who knows you.

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And I was like, oh, that's good.

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So there's two, two good quotes.

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For there, there's two nuggets before the episode even starts, but I'm super excited.

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This is a really good episode.

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John's a great, great person.

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Can't wait to see him in a few weeks at CMA conference, but I'm going to pass it over.

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Welcome to private club radio and let's welcome John McCormick, ccm all the way from Dublin.

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Good making sure, okay you're not getting.

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You're not getting any background noise from me, are you?

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Nope, you all good, you all good, okay, so what time is it for you?

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It is quarter past two in the afternoon.

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Oh it's not too bad, no it's perfect If you have time to wake up, have your coffee.

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Yeah, yeah.

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So what part of the world are you in?

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I am in Scranton, Pennsylvania.

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Scranton, that's.

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That's the office, is it?

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Yep.

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There you go.

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Yeah, I'll go ahead and write that name Yep and I wish I was kidding.

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My family used to own the paper supply company in Scranton, so like the real life office.

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Well, the first time I landed in America well, I landed in New York, but I stayed in Philadelphia quite a bit, so I've been an allegiance to Philadelphia ever since.

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Yeah, I'm about two hours north, like pretty much two hours to like the dot almost yeah, but yeah so small.

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What were you doing in Philly?

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Well, my aunt this is an interesting story because my aunt was a nun and she invited myself and my cousin.

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We were, we were quite, it was 1980.

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We were only 14 and she invited the two of us to come over to America for the summer.

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So we we took up the opportunity and the two of us went.

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So we stayed in a convent in Philadelphia, which I didn't realize at the time, but apparently it's pretty rough part of Philadelphia.

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It's quite near it was.

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It was quite near the stadium so we could actually walk to the stadium.

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We were that close to the stadium for baseball games and we saw one American football game and it was years later.

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Somebody said I think it's West Philly.

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They said, whoa, you were in a really rough place, but we used to go out and play with the kids, play stickball with the kids and all that sort of stuff.

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It seemed like perfectly safe to us.

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Yeah, we had a good time.

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Yeah, your accent saved you.

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I can't not going to lie, I would love to have been a fly on the wall.

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Just to see that first interaction of of you two going to meet the neighborhood kids is hearing that accent.

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They're probably like what?

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Well, we arrived on the 4th of July, I remember we arrived and so we got to see fireworks and that was really exciting for us.

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We'd never seen fireworks in our lives, really, yeah, and we.

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So we arrived on the 4th of July, she picked us up in New York and we drove back down to Philadelphia and we saw the fireworks that night and, actually talking about rough, there were.

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There was a mafia hit Not too far away, not too far away from the common.

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The day before we arrived there were two mafia guys shot in a restaurant.

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Yeah, so we that kind of gave us a wake up to think where are we?

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Where are we now?

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We're not.

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We're not in Ireland anymore, you know.

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And this was what year 1980.

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Oh, oh, my goodness.

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So you, so you must have found out after you landed.

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It's not like today, like social media, like you can get, like a little bit of information before it's you showed up.

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Welcome to America, by the way, where you're going, there was a mob hit.

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No, no, no, we saw it.

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We kind of saw it in the newspaper the next day, or a part of it, you know.

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Yeah, that's how we found out Goodness.

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Yeah.

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So we went to the airport for sports because the Phillies.

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We went to a number of Phillies games and they won the World Series that year and the Eagles made the Super Bowl.

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So it was a really good year for sports in Philadelphia that year, yeah.

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Luck of the Irish.

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Yeah, maybe, maybe.

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So before we get started I want I have a couple of rapid fire questions.

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One do you have any favorite books?

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I've just finished reading a book about one of my not a biography one of my heroes, a footballer.

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I read a lot of books about people, I suppose.

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Yeah, so I've just finished a book about one of my football.

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Actually, we might talk about that because you know, they say never meet your heroes, and I got to know this guy through the golf industry.

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I grew up watching this guy.

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It'd be a little bit I don't know who's your sporting hero.

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It'd be a little bit like you know, you watched as a kid.

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You watched Tom Brady win the Super Bowl many times and then you get to meet him at a club dinner.

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He gives you his phone, his mobile phone number.

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You end up playing golf with him, going to games with him, and he brought in another biography at the end of last year which I've just finished reading.

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And how cool is it that I get to text him and say, hey, I've just read your book, congratulations, it's really good.

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Yeah, how cool is that?

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Yeah.

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So this was an instance where meeting your hero was actually A good thing Really good.

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This guy is a really good guy.

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He would have been, I mean, look, I'm biased because I'm a big fan, but he would have been pretty close to somebody like Messi and Ronaldo back in the 80s.

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He was that cool, that's cool yeah.

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Yeah, I've been a big biography type of book reader lately.

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I started Elon's book by Walter Asaias I can't pronounce his last name but it's so thick.

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It's taken me since like Christmas.

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But what's nice is it's actually just put it down for a bit, because it's really like I don't want to say shorter stories, but it's like a progression, just like shorter stories.

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He interviews people, he's interviewed Elon and like his lovers, his family and all of that.

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So it's a really really well put together book.

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But it's just massive.

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And I just started reading the book about Mike Bloomberg from Bloomberg Media and stuff in New York.

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But yeah, I've been on a big bio kick also.

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Yeah.

00:10:03.541 --> 00:10:08.352
And look, I'm a master golf, like a, play golf or read golf books.

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I like John Feinstein, those kind of books about the tour, and again they're about the tour and about people, and a book I kind of tend to go in and out of is the art of happiness with the Dalai Lama.

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That's kind of a calming influence for me sometimes just to read.

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So I like his approach and the way he talks about the world and people.

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Yeah, and what was the book called?

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The art of happiness.

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I'll add that to my ever growing Amazon wish list.

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I don't even know what.

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My wife gets pissed because I use my Amazon cart as my wish list, so I just put it into the cart and then later on I'll put it down and she's just like when are you going to read all these books?

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I was like I don't know eventually, but if it's recommended, I always put it on my collection.

00:11:05.730 --> 00:11:07.946
So there we go.

00:11:07.946 --> 00:11:10.567
Actually, I have a couple of too many audible credits.

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Maybe I'll listen to it on the way to conference.

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You're going to CMA conference, right?

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Yes, in Vegas.

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Yes, I'm going.

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Yeah, this will be about number 15 for me, which is pretty good, coming from Ireland.

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Yeah, yeah.

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That's a hike.

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Yeah.

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And there's no direct flights to Vegas.

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Right, when do you go?

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Ireland to New York, New York, Vegas.

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There's a number of ways of getting there, and this occasion we're actually going through Philly.

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Actually, we go through Philly on the way over and Chicago on the way home.

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Yeah, Okay.

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But there are a number of ways to do it.

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Like I've been in Vegas perhaps more times than I should have been and we've gone a number of different Like you can go San Francisco and down, you could go LA, you could go fly to London and then just direct from London to Vegas.

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We've done that a couple of times.

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Oh snap, yeah, okay.

00:12:06.148 --> 00:12:08.669
So yeah, that's actually.

00:12:08.669 --> 00:12:09.480
That makes total sense.

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London and Vegas are both in Ireland, are pretty, pretty big.

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That makes sense.

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The only problem is, psychologically, when you're coming home.

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You're flying.

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I'm flying over Dublin on the way to London, and then you got to London and London and hang around for a couple of hours to fly back again.

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You know the way you've just come, you know.

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Yep, so there used to be an American flight from Scranton to Philly.

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Yeah, it's like a two hour drive.

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It was no lie, like a 15 minute flight.

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There was no drink service as soon as you got up to altitude and like they like, all right, we're now going to start our descent.

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It was the quickest flight.

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I don't even know why they had it, but the pandemic they ended up stopping it.

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But it was funny because a couple of times I just got stuck in Philly weather, because usually I would go through Charlotte or something else and I would just be sitting in Philly for two or three hours and I'm thinking to myself I could have been home, like I'm so close to home.

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There was one time I was really frustrated so I made a Facebook post.

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I don't know if I did like a Instagram, like you know story or a Facebook story, but I was like stuck in Philly trying to get home and one of my buddies landed in Philly and that was his final destination.

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He was driving back up home and he goes, I can give you a lift.

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I was like I'm in, I just ditched my last flight and just booked it up home.

00:13:28.330 --> 00:13:36.985
But yeah, so let's get like a 30,000 foot view, could you have an amazing background.

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What got you to where you're at today?

00:13:39.392 --> 00:13:40.926
So let's take maybe three minutes.

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I'm going to put a timer on.

00:13:42.125 --> 00:13:43.865
I'm going to give you three minutes.

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What got you to where you're at today to 2024?

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Okay.

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So I qualified as I count, way back in the dark age, I say 88.

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I actually qualified, got married to Siobhan in 90 and on the day we were married believe it or not we had no jobs and nowhere to live.

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We decided we were going to travel the world.

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We gave up really good jobs in Dublin during a recession, so maybe not the smartest thing to do, but we were going on honeymoon to Salucia in the Caribbean.

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A recruiter had remembered that.

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I told him that and he called me about three weeks before the wedding and said Price Waterhouse in the East in Caribbean, are looking for accountants.

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Will you do an interview?

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And I initially said not a chance, I'm not going to do an interview on our honeymoon.

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It's not going to happen.

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Eventually he kept at me, at me, at me please come on, do this interview.

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It'll only take an hour out of your holiday.

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So we ended up.

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One of the partners from Price Waterhouse came to our hotel.

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We sat around the pool having a cocktail.

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His kids played in the pool while he chatted to us.

00:14:52.115 --> 00:14:53.950
Siobhan is the accountant as well.

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I should say there was one job.

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Both of us are qualified accountants.

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So he chatted to both of us.

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He said would you like to come down and see the office?

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And we said, well, look, we haven't been in the town yet.

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We were going to go in and have a look.

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We've been in.

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We spoke to the head partner and the next day two contracts arrived in our hotel room.

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They offered both of us jobs.

00:15:17.576 --> 00:15:21.253
So happy holidays, happy holidays.

00:15:21.253 --> 00:15:27.437
So we came home for three weeks, got all our stuff together and went out to Solution.

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It was so fantastic.

00:15:29.149 --> 00:15:30.308
We had such great time.

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We stayed out there for over seven years, made lots and lots of friends.

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And then we came back to Ireland.

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I initially went into the hotel business.

00:15:41.376 --> 00:15:45.125
We came back to Ireland because our kids were getting to school age, so it was time to come home.

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Started off, I was financial controller for one of the major hotel chains in Ireland, but a really keen golfer I mean, golf was my sport.

00:15:56.010 --> 00:16:03.610
I was massively keen Saw an advert for a general manager in a club in Dublin, so that might be nice.

00:16:03.610 --> 00:16:10.669
I get to play golf every day if I'm a general manager and I know you're laughing how stupid was I.

00:16:10.669 --> 00:16:14.567
So I got the job, to my surprise.

00:16:14.567 --> 00:16:15.250
I got the job.

00:16:15.250 --> 00:16:17.480
They liked me, I got the job.

00:16:17.480 --> 00:16:33.360
I ended up spending two or three years in that club really great club, and I still have a lot of relationships there and then joined a club closer to home where I was manager for 20 years and loved it.

00:16:34.102 --> 00:16:35.225
Same club for 20 years.

00:16:35.284 --> 00:16:36.755
Same club for 20 years, yeah.

00:16:36.897 --> 00:16:45.677
That's awesome, yeah, that's great, really one of the bigger clubs, private clubs in Dublin what we would call a Parkland course.

00:16:45.677 --> 00:16:47.630
So we have a lot of links courses.

00:16:47.630 --> 00:16:58.677
As you know, in Ireland we were a Parkland course pretty close to the city 1500 members, big club, great social scene as well as being a really good golf club.

00:16:58.677 --> 00:17:01.292
You know, big social scene in the club.

00:17:01.292 --> 00:17:04.252
So really diverse and interesting job.

00:17:04.252 --> 00:17:10.015
And that's where I was for 20 years and then I decided it was time for a change.

00:17:10.015 --> 00:17:15.769
So I kind of pulled back from that and did a little bit of consulting, actually out of the blue.

00:17:15.888 --> 00:17:21.073
The club that I first managed 22 years ago called me out of the blue and asked me would I go over and give them some help?

00:17:21.073 --> 00:17:25.556
So I ended up out there part time for a few months just helping them out.

00:17:25.556 --> 00:17:33.192
Their manager had left for greener pastures so they asked me to help them out and help them find a new guy, which I did.

00:17:33.192 --> 00:17:49.313
And then club benchmarking came along, which is where I am now and I have to say the team at club benchmarking are fantastic, particularly Ray Krohn and Jim Butler who we've got to know really well.

00:17:49.313 --> 00:17:59.477
They're now with myself and James in the European company and we're loving helping clubs, helping general managers and clubs.

00:17:59.477 --> 00:18:00.157
That's what we do.

00:18:00.157 --> 00:18:05.055
It's fantastic to still be involved in this great industry for me, yeah.

00:18:06.884 --> 00:18:20.034
And I still laugh, because you and I met at the PGA show in Orlando officially, and one of my favorite things to do is when I go out with a group of people is sneak to the waiter and tell them it's someone's birthday.

00:18:20.034 --> 00:18:23.375
And I did that to Jim and he was not amused.

00:18:23.375 --> 00:18:25.791
I have the video.

00:18:25.791 --> 00:18:29.574
The look on his face is just such like okay, here we go.

00:18:31.750 --> 00:18:32.993
I thought he took it like a trooper.

00:18:32.993 --> 00:18:35.234
I thought he played it out.

00:18:35.234 --> 00:18:37.230
He played it out really well yeah.

00:18:38.144 --> 00:18:42.193
Well, it was funnier because the night before I did it to Gareth.

00:18:42.615 --> 00:18:43.237
Yeah.

00:18:45.609 --> 00:18:47.836
And he played right and he was having a field day.

00:18:47.836 --> 00:18:50.292
It was just so funny just watching the difference.

00:18:50.292 --> 00:18:58.073
Jim was still great, but I think it was funnier because, like the waiter, I think, clearly knew and he was just trying to get us out of there.

00:18:58.073 --> 00:19:07.834
So for people who don't know what is club benchmarking so club benchmarking started 15 years ago in the States.

00:19:09.005 --> 00:19:11.772
They represent over a thousand clubs now in the States.

00:19:11.772 --> 00:19:23.567
We also have a presence in Australia, where there's over 100 clubs represented, and early last year we started what we're called club benchmarking EMEA Europe, middle East and Africa.

00:19:23.567 --> 00:19:44.092
So myself and James who's also an ex-club manager from a club in Dublin he managed his club for about 14, 15 years we are the European presence, along with Jim Butler and Ray Cronin as the other shareholders sorry, directors in our European company.

00:19:44.092 --> 00:19:46.750
So club benchmarking does a number of things.

00:19:46.750 --> 00:19:48.489
As it says on the tin.

00:19:48.548 --> 00:19:50.375
It started with benchmarking.

00:19:50.375 --> 00:19:54.455
Basically, we're data analysts, for one of a better word.

00:19:54.455 --> 00:20:05.989
We collect data relative to clubs and only clubs, all types of clubs golf, yacht clubs, tennis clubs, city clubs and we collect data.

00:20:05.989 --> 00:20:15.914
We have a piece of software platform where this data sits and allows managers in their clubs you know 24, 7, they have access.

00:20:15.914 --> 00:20:26.397
If you're a subscriber, you've access to this data where you can compare yourself across a number of important metrics in the club industry not all financial, by the way.

00:20:26.397 --> 00:20:27.006
You know.

00:20:27.006 --> 00:20:34.536
There's also membership, demographic graphics, things like that and, coming soon, environmental benchmarking will be included in there.

00:20:35.126 --> 00:20:47.846
I love the play, I love everything about it because for I think every club A should be on it because to be able to benchmark, to be able to look at your club and wonder I wonder how I'm doing against.

00:20:47.846 --> 00:20:53.307
And being able to compare and look at you know different numbers and see why would you not?

00:20:53.307 --> 00:20:59.977
To have that hard data and be like I think we're doing pretty well and then to compare yourself like, oh, we can actually be doing a lot better.

00:21:02.934 --> 00:21:05.894
Well, look, the big thing is to take emotion out of decision making.

00:21:05.894 --> 00:21:07.238
You know too many clubs.

00:21:07.238 --> 00:21:11.780
You know they make decisions with emotion.

00:21:11.780 --> 00:21:17.695
They sometimes manage through fear or afraid to make a decision because the members might be upset.

00:21:17.695 --> 00:21:30.959
Data really gives you some important information where you can make data-driven decisions, I look it just really helps you to run your club correctly and plan for the future.

00:21:30.959 --> 00:21:36.816
A big part of what we do is you know capital modeling, capital planning, and you know any club.

00:21:36.816 --> 00:21:47.839
You know all the best-run clubs who want to have a better term in the world have a really robust, rounded plan and included in that plan is proper capital planning within it.

00:21:49.529 --> 00:21:50.634
And you think about other sports.

00:21:50.634 --> 00:21:58.218
I mean, one of my favorite films is Moneyball and you'll know that and those guys, they use data.

00:21:58.218 --> 00:22:01.599
They took the motion out of their decision making and used data.

00:22:01.599 --> 00:22:06.220
You know there's one of the major sports clubs in the world.

00:22:06.220 --> 00:22:09.159
There's soccer teams in England now doing the same thing.

00:22:09.159 --> 00:22:11.897
They're, you know, data-driven decisions.

00:22:11.897 --> 00:22:16.617
It works for them and it definitely works in the club industry.

00:22:16.617 --> 00:22:18.313
I can tell you how do you keep?

00:22:18.990 --> 00:22:20.497
because you've been in this industry for so long.

00:22:20.497 --> 00:22:28.897
What has kept you so passionate and wanting to stay in it and even to take this next step and go with club benchmarking?

00:22:28.897 --> 00:22:31.613
You know I'm always fascinated, so kind of like why?

00:22:31.613 --> 00:22:33.940
Probably you and I read bios.

00:22:33.940 --> 00:22:37.720
It's you know what's kept you and keeping you in this.

00:22:39.329 --> 00:22:41.557
Oh yeah, look, I love the industry.

00:22:41.557 --> 00:22:42.112
There's.

00:22:42.112 --> 00:22:54.237
No, you're absolutely right, and I'm having a blast working with club benchmarking because I get to visit it's not just one club anymore and that's why I was so heavily involved in the associations over the years.

00:22:54.237 --> 00:22:58.121
You know I've spoken to conferences all around the world.

00:22:58.121 --> 00:23:08.455
I love interacting with people working in clubs there's it's such a wonderful industry and there's so many good people in it.

00:23:08.455 --> 00:23:10.676
What keeps me passionate is meet and those people.

00:23:10.676 --> 00:23:20.931
You know we don't profess I don't profess to know everything, so I'm learning every single day when I go to these conferences and meet people we met.

00:23:20.931 --> 00:23:26.000
I'm sure, like me, you met lots of interesting people at the PGA show recently.

00:23:27.272 --> 00:23:28.355
And we're learning.

00:23:28.355 --> 00:23:29.318
There's lots of them.

00:23:29.318 --> 00:23:31.555
And then working with teams.

00:23:31.555 --> 00:23:40.659
You know I grew up playing team sports and I love interacting with teams and helping people within those teams to develop.

00:23:40.659 --> 00:23:43.999
You know that's a real passion of mine.

00:23:43.999 --> 00:23:48.577
You know identifying talent and helping them to be the best that they can be.

00:23:48.577 --> 00:24:09.733
You know, and if we can help them in some small way to progress along their path, you know everybody's goal is different and everybody's goal in life is different, but you know to be involved in trying to help people find their path and find their success, whatever their version of success is, that's really fulfilling.

00:24:10.309 --> 00:24:11.817
Over the course of your whole career.

00:24:11.817 --> 00:24:16.141
Is there anything that you're really proud of?

00:24:16.141 --> 00:24:23.199
Is there any moments or were there any situations that you handled well, or any projects you did?

00:24:23.199 --> 00:24:28.276
Is there anything that you can think of that was like a milestone, something like a big accomplishment for you?

00:24:30.410 --> 00:24:37.060
I suppose in the club industry, I mean, the standout really is working.

00:24:37.060 --> 00:24:46.538
And this wasn't made by any stretch of the imagination, but it was working with a lot of other people to set up CMAE, which is the Club Manager's Association of Europe.

00:24:46.538 --> 00:24:52.076
So you know a lot of your audience and you will be very familiar with CMAE.

00:24:52.076 --> 00:24:55.778
But CMAE didn't exist 20 odd years ago.

00:24:55.778 --> 00:25:00.701
So a few of us started going to world conferences.

00:25:00.701 --> 00:25:03.618
We started to learn more and more about education.

00:25:03.618 --> 00:25:23.032
You know, when I joined the club industry first having been an accountant and there's lots of continuing professional development and education in the accountancy world I joined the club business and immediately went to find out how do I learn more about how to be the best I could be as a club manager?

00:25:23.032 --> 00:25:29.076
And there really was little, very little around in Ireland and Europe at the time.

00:25:29.076 --> 00:25:35.037
So we got to know the guys in CMAE and they were really helpful.

00:25:35.037 --> 00:25:39.319
They, you know, I have to say you know hats off to them.

00:25:39.319 --> 00:25:42.618
They were they're the same now as they were back then.

00:25:42.618 --> 00:25:51.315
They were very happy to share what they'd learned and all the education pieces they had with the world, not just with Europe but with the world.

00:25:51.315 --> 00:25:54.443
So Along with them.

00:25:54.523 --> 00:26:01.090
We set up the Club Manager's Association of Europe and there was a lot of work in the early days trying to persuade.

00:26:01.090 --> 00:26:04.066
There were various associations around Europe.

00:26:04.066 --> 00:26:09.724
You know working with them so that we could all have a combined, combined voice.

00:26:09.724 --> 00:26:11.729
You know, get them to come under.

00:26:11.729 --> 00:26:12.730
You know the umbrella.

00:26:12.730 --> 00:26:16.509
We would work with CMA to provide education.

00:26:16.509 --> 00:26:20.603
So that developed quite quickly From a very small organization.

00:26:21.945 --> 00:26:23.028
You look back now.

00:26:23.028 --> 00:26:25.673
We had our 20th anniversary two years ago.

00:26:25.673 --> 00:26:29.809
We now have education weeks.

00:26:29.809 --> 00:26:33.746
We call them management development program, you call them BMI in the States.

00:26:33.746 --> 00:26:42.848
There's almost one a week going on in Europe now, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of delegates going through that program.

00:26:42.848 --> 00:26:49.789
You know, myself and a few others, we were what we would call the founding members of CMAE.

00:26:49.789 --> 00:26:59.266
I, along with I think it was six others at the time, we were the first CCMs in Europe, which was another major milestone.

00:26:59.266 --> 00:27:07.352
You know, working with Joe Perdue and others back then to bring CCM to Europe was a huge achievement for all of us.

00:27:07.352 --> 00:27:11.846
And to look back now, cmae is just growing.

00:27:11.846 --> 00:27:23.208
It's growing, growing, growing and it's huge and that to me that's that's been fantastic for, for not just myself but everybody else who's been involved in that, in that road.

00:27:23.208 --> 00:27:25.605
You know it's fantastic to see.

00:27:25.605 --> 00:27:27.405
Yeah, great achievement for all of us.

00:27:28.040 --> 00:27:30.809
You've mentioned a few, and then I've also done my own research.

00:27:30.809 --> 00:27:34.690
But you've been involved in a lot of different associations.

00:27:34.690 --> 00:27:39.626
Why Like, why put in all that hard work?

00:27:39.626 --> 00:27:41.403
Because?

00:27:41.403 --> 00:27:42.425
So why keep doing it?

00:27:43.980 --> 00:27:47.349
Because look it's, I get something out of it.

00:27:47.349 --> 00:27:52.550
You know, there's a personal piece where, where you know I, I I'm learning every day.

00:27:52.550 --> 00:28:04.105
You know I, if I go on an MDP now a lot of time, when I go on these education weeks, I'm I'm now presenting, I'm not a delegate anymore, I'm now presenting and but I'm still learning.

00:28:04.105 --> 00:28:08.646
Yeah, I did one in London which which is at the you know MDP.

00:28:08.646 --> 00:28:12.314
One is the kind of the initial start along the road to CCM.

00:28:12.314 --> 00:28:15.423
A lot of young up and coming like.

00:28:15.423 --> 00:28:26.669
In that room on that day there was everything from a financial controller to true to a server in a restaurant and everything in between, and the energy in that room was just phenomenal.

00:28:26.669 --> 00:28:34.873
I got such I got, I think I I got more from that session where I presented than they probably got for me.

00:28:34.873 --> 00:28:38.164
If I'm honest, you know I just I just came out.

00:28:38.164 --> 00:28:41.181
I was buzzing when I came out of that, you know.

00:28:41.181 --> 00:28:42.325
So why do I keep doing it?

00:28:42.325 --> 00:28:47.146
Hopefully I'm passing on some knowledge to others when when I do it, you know.

00:28:47.867 --> 00:28:51.232
You know I've been president of the European Association way, way back.

00:28:51.232 --> 00:28:55.190
I was president of the Irish Association only recently.

00:28:55.190 --> 00:28:57.448
I'm proud to do that during COVID.

00:28:57.448 --> 00:28:58.403
It actually was.

00:28:58.403 --> 00:29:00.480
Look it's.

00:29:00.480 --> 00:29:09.643
You know it's a combination of learning, you know, giving something back which is important to me and continuing to to.

00:29:09.643 --> 00:29:12.667
You know, widen my network.

00:29:12.667 --> 00:29:15.854
You're now in my network, denny, congratulations.

00:29:19.586 --> 00:29:31.053
You may you may want to get out, but you know, every time I go to one of these things I had a few people to my network and it's so wonderful to know all these people.

00:29:31.053 --> 00:29:33.982
Yeah, it really is, and I get.

00:29:33.982 --> 00:29:35.587
I get a huge kick out of it.

00:29:35.587 --> 00:29:38.527
Hopefully I give back as much as I get.

00:29:38.527 --> 00:29:40.084
That's the hope you know.

00:29:42.779 --> 00:30:04.291
One of my favorite questions to I've indirectly started asking is now I've just flat out ask it is you know, since we're in 2024, you've been in the club world for so long, Moving forward in just things in general, how do you see clubs balancing innovation and tradition?

00:30:06.503 --> 00:30:08.088
You keep saying I'm in the industry so long.

00:30:08.088 --> 00:30:12.028
I still look at myself in America and think I'm one of the newbies, one of the young guys.

00:30:12.028 --> 00:30:17.910
But you're probably right, I wanted to get all guys down.

00:30:17.971 --> 00:30:18.731
It's not a bad thing.

00:30:18.731 --> 00:30:19.443
You've been in more.

00:30:19.443 --> 00:30:21.787
I mean, granted, you are only 30.

00:30:21.787 --> 00:30:24.887
So that's been in it for since, since you were 10.

00:30:26.380 --> 00:30:29.765
I wish I wish, look, tradition and innovation.

00:30:29.765 --> 00:30:30.428
It's a good question.

00:30:30.428 --> 00:30:35.789
It's a question that's asked all the time Is that there's a place for both.

00:30:35.789 --> 00:30:39.845
I mean, let's make that clear from the start there's still a place for both.

00:30:39.845 --> 00:30:42.252
You know what is it?

00:30:42.252 --> 00:30:49.597
The opening lines to Augusta every year is a traditional like no other, or something like that I think Jim Nan starts with every year.

00:30:49.597 --> 00:31:02.617
But you know, while we all can't be Augusta national, you know they've embraced innovation as well as maintaining tradition, and there's a perfect example of how they can work hand in hand.

00:31:04.450 --> 00:31:06.314
You know innovation can take many forms.

00:31:06.314 --> 00:31:09.642
You know there are lots of clubs now adding amenities.

00:31:09.642 --> 00:31:13.289
You know family is now usually important.

00:31:13.289 --> 00:31:19.339
When I started playing golf, it was certainly as a young man in Ireland.

00:31:19.339 --> 00:31:30.080
It was difficult to get into a lot of golf clubs and when you did, it was male dominated, but that's changed significantly over the decades.

00:31:30.080 --> 00:31:41.845
I think clubs that aren't looking at families and every member of the family you know husband, wives and young children they're the ones that are going to be Grandma, grandpa.

00:31:42.450 --> 00:31:53.414
Absolutely everybody, you know, and providing something for all of those people at all different age groups, is really important and that could be adding amenities.

00:31:53.414 --> 00:31:56.423
You know innovations around IT.

00:31:56.423 --> 00:32:05.289
You know who would have thought we had apps now that helped us to to book games of golf or book restaurants and make our life easier when we come to our clubs?

00:32:05.289 --> 00:32:09.289
Clubs are using using that for member recognition.

00:32:09.289 --> 00:32:11.289
You know that's been used more and more.

00:32:11.289 --> 00:32:14.250
There's wonderful products out there that will help you do that.

00:32:14.250 --> 00:32:24.538
And then there's simple things like I mean who would have heard I don't think anybody heard of Pickleball 15 years ago and now how many clubs in the States have Pickleball or want Pickleball?

00:32:24.538 --> 00:32:27.063
You know, and not just in the States, and worldwide?

00:32:27.063 --> 00:32:30.058
Yeah, Everywhere.

00:32:30.450 --> 00:32:36.163
Do you think Pickleball would have been as popular if it didn't have the name Pickleball?

00:32:37.214 --> 00:32:37.616
I don't know.

00:32:37.616 --> 00:32:41.016