April 3, 2024

337: Behind the Scenes with Golf's Culinary Visionary Diana DeLucia

Embark on a culinary journey with us as we sit down with Diana DeLucia, the gastronomic innovator behind Golf Kitchen, and unravel the tapestry of gourmet dining within the world of golf clubs. We're not just talking about your average clubhouse fare; this is about the transformation of the golf course gastronomy scene, where kitchens become as prestigious as the greens they overlook. Witness the story of Golf Kitchen's inception, from Diana's shift away from the hustle of New York's food scene to her focus on the unsung heroes behind golf club menus. With a nod to her impressive book series and a peek into the international stage program aimed at chef exchanges, we uncover the quest for culinary excellence that's reshaping the industry.

As we traverse the hallowed kitchens of clubs like Aspatuck Valley, a realization dawns: the kitchen's brand can be as influential as that of the club itself. Discover the innovative strides clubs are making to elevate their culinary reputation, from bespoke kitchen logos to attracting world-class chefs, setting an example that resonates across the industry. Behind the scenes, we share the delicate dance of keeping our magazine's content vibrant, the anticipation of Golf Kitchen events in exotic destinations, and the thrill of considering international editions that could take us from Jakarta's virtual golf concepts to the serene landscapes of Indonesia.

The episode culminates with a forward-looking discussion on the future of culinary talent in the golf industry, tackling the daunting chef shortage expected by 2025 and the strategies clubs are employing to draw in the next wave of kitchen maestros. We address the adaptability of farms and clubs in the face of recent global challenges, while also emphasizing the importance of events like the CMAA conference in driving industry momentum. This conversation is not just about the plates served at the 19th hole; it's an inspiring and insightful look into how Golf Kitchen and the international stage program could very well be the key to sustaining a vibrant and talented community of chefs in the private club industry.

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00:00 - Culinary Experiences at Golf Clubs

10:33 - The Culinary Legacy of Golf Clubs

29:43 - Future Culinary Talent in Golf Industry

37:51 - Club Management and Culinary Expansion

WEBVTT

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Hey everyone, welcome back to this episode of Private Club Radio, the industry source for conversations, news, trends and updates.

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I'm your host, denny Corby.

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As always, it's a pleasure.

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Thank you for being here.

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Thank you to all of our listeners.

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In this episode I chat with Diana DeLucia.

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You might know her from Golf Kitchen and in this episode we focus on culinary experiences at golf clubs around the world.

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She shares with us the idea for Golf Kitchen, how it originated and how it's progressed over the years.

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We talk about some of her future projects with Golf Kitchen, including a new book series, and we touch on uh, something interesting she's planning for the future um, which is a sort of um international stage program which aims to facilitate reciprocal chef exchanges between clubs.

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Um, which is actually pretty, pretty cool and interesting.

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Um also because, you know, one of the things we talk about is addressing the challenges of staffing in the golf industry and how the need for more culinary talent is becoming more and more important.

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So, right before we get to the show, a word from some of our show partners.

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You're going to have a chat with Paul Dank.

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It's going to be good.

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He's a great guy.

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Also, be sure to check out our episodes of Member Vetting here on Private Club Radio.

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Concert Golf Partners is changing the game, one club at a time.

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Since their inception in 2001, they've been on a mission to preserve and elevate private clubs, pouring capital into enhancements that matter.

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Set up a confidential call with Peter Danula and that's it.

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Simple as that.

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Also, be sure to check out our episodes of Board Chats here on Private Club Radio, brought to you by our friends.

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You guessed it Concert Golf Partners.

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And now, please welcome to the show, diana DeLucia.

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And how did?

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Where did?

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Where did Golf Kitchen come from?

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And where did Golf Kitchen come from?

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I used to have a publication in New York City called New York Restaurant Insider that I was part owner of and I'm a photographer by trade.

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So I was working with all the famous chefs back in the day.

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This was in the 2000s and when the recession hit we closed that magazine and then I started writing a book about chefs in golf and that was in 2010.

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And the idea came from back then, when blogging came in and everybody was writing about the same stuff.

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Like everyone was writing about the same stuff, like everyone was writing about the same exact things.

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And I was like getting bored of New York stuff in New York because everyone was doing everything the same.

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So I was thinking about where can I still work with chefs and food and cuisine that is not getting highlighted at this particular time?

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And that's how I found the golf industry, because back then in 2010, nobody was writing about golf chefs maybe club and resort, because they were just beginning at that point in time.

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So except, they're all encompassing, they're all clubs and I'm just focused on golf.

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So I did that first book.

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I started at Savonic Golf Club in Southampton and then I went to 12 properties around the world and that book published in 2013 and sold out.

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Nice.

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So then I had proof of concept sold out nice.

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So then I had proof of concept.

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So then I started on the.

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I was writing for a publication called destination golf china okay, and they're kind of all over the world destination golf magazine, but I know some people from that magazine.

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So I started this chinese column called, and we called it golf kitchen, but in chinese, and it was translated always into Cantonese or Mandarin or whatever the language was, and it was really cool.

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And that went until the new government took over in 2015 of China and then everyone had to clear out of China and they had to close the magazine.

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They knocked down all these golf courses and you know it was all the Americans and all the expats had to clear out of China.

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And they still haven't gone back.

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And then that's when I started writing the book Golf Kitchen, which is a huge book it's 568 pages, seven pounds, like, like it's like a newborn baby.

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This is like it's really big and heavy and that started at that launched at wingfoot and I went all around, I went to originally I went to 18 clubs and 16 ended up in the project and then we had these book launches at Wingfoot and Cacique at Kiowa and then the magazine idea came up, which I kind of didn't want to do, the magazine.

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But I gave it a try and now it's in its sixth year and it's doing pretty well.

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Now um got through the pandemic, which was really hard, and now I'm on the other side of that.

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So now my focus is developing the magazine further and growing the subscriber base internationally with your.

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You know when you're working with all of these, these clubs and chefs.

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What's your process for selecting your clubs and your chefs?

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I try to stick to the top 20% of clubs to try to keep the quality as high as possible.

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I usually do a lot of research on a chef and a club before I even call them or contact them and generally I know so many club chefs now I can get referrals from other club chefs.

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But there's a lot of changes happening in the industry right now that I'm thinking and considering want to do more international properties because I think it will be more beneficial for chefs in the US to see what chefs are doing overseas.

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It's kind of like the chef from Aspatuck Valley Country Club who's in the current magazine.

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His name's Gerard Clinton.

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I was talking to him about you know how restaurant chefs do stages at places all over the world and that's how they get better.

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And he said oh, I do that every year normally.

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And I said well, I know this property in Portugal.

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I'm pretty sure they'd love to host you.

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And he just got back yesterday.

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It's the Oitivus Dunes and they hosted him the whole time for the whole week, took him all over the place.

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He cooked in the kitchen, loved it, so that was really successful and I think there needs to be more of these reciprocal you know, club chefs going to work in other clubs overseas and internationally, and it's something I've been wanting to work on for a really long time.

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And I can see how that could be such a great fun program, I think, for clubs and for their members to look forward to, you know, having like a guest chef for a week or a day or a weekend or something that can be so much fun.

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Yeah, um, I like, uh.

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The reason I met Aspatuck Valley in the first place is because I was, I had done a story with Stephen Yen at Liberty National and he then, a week later, introduced me to Aspatuck Valley in Connecticut.

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And I didn't even had never heard of the place, nor did I expect it to be as high quality as it is.

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I'd never heard of the place, nor did I expect it to be as high quality as it is, and then when I went there as a guest, I was blown away.

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The property is gorgeous, the kitchen is beautiful.

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They even have their own logo for the kitchen.

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I've never seen that anywhere in the whole planet On golf clubs.

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I've been to where they actually branded their kitchen.

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I thought that was super cool.

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Tell me more about that.

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That's cool.

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It is cool.

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So what do you mean?

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So the kitchen has a logo?

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Was there anything else that they do?

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Are all the?

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utensils logoed and stuff too.

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All their uniforms are all logoed up Aspartak Kitchen, aspartak Kitchen, aspartak Valley.

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So it's an AK kitchen and it's on all the uniforms, like everybody's got the logo, which I thought that was like so appreciative of a membership to do that.

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A club within a club.

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Yeah, I like that, the club's club club.

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The logo is in the current magazine as well.

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I was like blown away by that.

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I'd be willing to bet.

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More clubs are going to do that I, I would not doubt that and it's one.

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Those, even if they don't have to like the ones that do or even think about that, are so far ahead and you know they would create, they would have such a unique position in the marketplace.

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Yeah, that would do wonders for the talent pool too.

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That is so neat how you know it's hard doing and putting out things like you do.

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How do you keep your content fresh and engaging with the readers?

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Well, recently we've changed a lot of things up with the magazine.

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We're adding different features.

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We're featuring artists now in the industry or artists involved in the industry.

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Featuring artists now in the industry or artists involved in the industry.

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We've got some um.

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We generally do our wine um reviews with fernando silver at glen arbor golf club.

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Okay that was really hard to get off the ground.

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It took about a couple years, um, and we had to meet with some, you know, wine industry people, because it's very hard to pull off the wine reviews in the private club space because they don't.

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You know the clubs I work with.

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They don't want to see cake, bread or something like that, you know, or yellowtail reviews, like it has to be like really solid wine brands and it's doing really well and that's something we want to develop further Then.

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So we're kind of adding rather than just focusing on only chefs and golf.

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I want to open it up to anything between golf and the kitchen.

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Okay.

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You know like we have a product page at the beginning called Amuse Bouche now, so we're getting products from all over the place that want to be featured.

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It could be cookbooks, it could be new products, or food or mushrooms or whatever it might be, which is pretty fun.

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Your bonzo beans the works.

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Yeah, and I think that's doing pretty well.

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I'm really proud of the current issue.

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I'm not sure if you had a chance to look at it.

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It's online.

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The digital one's online, so you just need to go to the.

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Yeah, I will.

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Uh, I'll check that out the new one after we're done.

00:13:22.827 --> 00:13:28.846
If you can host a golf kitchen event at any course in the world, where would you do it?

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well, I've done golf kitchen events.

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Um, anywhere in the world?

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That's really hard to say.

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We've done Ponte Mita, mexico, twice, which was fantastic.

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We have an event every year at Glen Arbor, which has just been.

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We've postponed the date because it coincides with it's the second day of Passover and there's a Taste of Golf event the next day.

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So we're moving that event.

00:14:05.986 --> 00:14:19.835
But if I could do it anywhere in the world, it would be somewhere like Morocco or Dubai or maybe Corsica.

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There's a great venue there.

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Then there's Spain, valderrama.

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That would be a great venue to do an event.

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I've been to all those places.

00:14:34.565 --> 00:14:36.958
Yeah, and the culinary experience is there too.

00:14:37.181 --> 00:14:42.948
There's so many amazing destinations, as you know are there any unique?

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because you know, you've you've been doing this for a while and you've experienced.

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You know the ups and downs and different turns and the markets and governments and all that sort of you know, just just like you know us and clubs and everything else.

00:14:54.221 --> 00:15:01.528
You know any any fun lessons that you've learned throughout during doing all of uh, through doing golf kitchen, through.

00:15:01.629 --> 00:15:22.871
You know the thick and thin uh, only that it's really really high stress trying to keep up with uh, printers, mailing, distribution, like there's a lot and you've got to travel, you're going to go to the properties and then when you get back you've got to work with everybody to get the final piece.

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You know, because I have a rule that you have editorial approval so that everyone's happy and there's not too many errors or typos or anything like that.

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And it's worked.

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And now I want to bring the international back because the pandemic kind of squashed that a fair bit.

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But I'm ready.

00:15:44.470 --> 00:15:53.448
I'm talking to some properties in Indonesia at the moment, so I'm hopeful of potentially doing one travel edition a year.

00:15:56.313 --> 00:15:59.025
Okay so that will be exciting, and I'm just.

00:15:59.025 --> 00:16:00.770
You know, there's a.

00:16:00.770 --> 00:16:13.609
There's a new kind of top golf concept in jakarta right now, and I can't remember the name of it, but it's all private, so it's not like um, it's all the virtual golf.

00:16:13.609 --> 00:16:35.605
It's not like they have the, the nets and everything like top golf, but it's like that with a focus on fine dining, and they're all private rooms, so you have your own, you can have a party in there, um, with your mini golf, not mini golf, is it video golf, virtual golf, and then have chef comes in and and all of that.

00:16:35.865 --> 00:16:39.833
So I'm thinking of covering that concept.

00:16:40.740 --> 00:16:41.806
Oh, that's definitely fun.

00:16:41.806 --> 00:16:43.024
How long have they been doing that for?

00:16:43.721 --> 00:16:45.187
They only opened in January.

00:16:45.187 --> 00:16:47.246
Oh so only a month.

00:16:47.600 --> 00:16:51.908
Yeah, a month or two, yeah, that's definitely a different dimension different offering.

00:16:52.419 --> 00:17:02.426
Because I think Tiger Woods and Justin Timberlake opened one in opposite Grand Central Station, but it's not and I'm not sure if it's a club.

00:17:02.426 --> 00:17:09.090
It's only a few months old as well, but I want to check that out because it's probably pretty cool.

00:17:12.701 --> 00:17:16.531
What's been your favorite moments with Golf Kitchen so far?

00:17:16.531 --> 00:17:19.098
What's been your favorite moments with Golf Kitchen so far?

00:17:24.104 --> 00:17:27.999
What are you very proud of that you and the book have accomplished?

00:17:27.999 --> 00:17:40.490
I like to say I have one of the biggest portfolios of culinary history in the private golf club industry internationally and I understand the hard work and effort.

00:17:40.490 --> 00:18:03.748
Everybody all over the world at clubs from Australia to Dubai to Morocco to, I mean, all over the place have privileged me to tell their stories, photograph their food, photograph their culinary teams and you know it's all a big part of the culinary history of golf.

00:18:03.748 --> 00:18:14.734
I'm a really big fan of the history, like creating that history, and I think it's something that I want to leave behind.

00:18:14.734 --> 00:18:17.385
That I will obviously leave behind.

00:18:18.148 --> 00:18:18.589
A legacy.

00:18:18.839 --> 00:18:21.106
And I'm working on another book series.

00:18:21.106 --> 00:18:22.671
That is a long time.

00:18:22.671 --> 00:18:34.451
It was like knocked out, had to change the concept during the pandemic because you couldn't travel anymore and chefs were leaving and I was like, oh, we've got all this work, what do I do?

00:18:34.451 --> 00:18:45.832
So I came up with a new concept called uh, golf's culinary pioneers and that's three volumes and I'm working really hard on that project.

00:18:45.893 --> 00:19:05.102
It's really hard to kind of um, do the magazine and do the books all at the same simultaneously, because it's a ton of work and and we're probably a little bit more in the creative space than some others, and sometimes it's hard to switch off one project to work on like another.

00:19:05.102 --> 00:19:06.826
So it's like you know, yeah.

00:19:06.826 --> 00:19:11.700
So so, yeah, it's, yeah, I do I find it really, really difficult.

00:19:12.381 --> 00:19:21.807
Sometimes it's like, do I spend three hours doing this and then three hours doing that, or do I break it up and then you've got all the other stuff you have to do in between.

00:19:22.730 --> 00:19:22.891
Yep.

00:19:22.891 --> 00:19:24.747
And then you get on your creative flow.

00:19:24.747 --> 00:19:26.827
Next thing you know, you saw that one email that comes in.

00:19:26.827 --> 00:19:27.904
You're like, oh, I got to take care of it.

00:19:30.201 --> 00:19:34.430
You know, one good thing is Chef's Warehouse just came on board as a sponsor.

00:19:35.792 --> 00:19:36.232
Very nice.

00:19:36.859 --> 00:19:46.484
Yeah, so I'm excited because, um they're going to I'm going to be working with them for the next year Um showcasing some of the chef's warehouse products and brands.

00:19:46.484 --> 00:19:49.030
So that's a new thing for golf kitchen.

00:19:49.030 --> 00:19:50.113
I'm really proud of that.

00:19:50.113 --> 00:19:52.604
Um bringing chef's warehouse on board.

00:19:54.106 --> 00:19:59.820
What's the uh golf kitchen culinary excellence awards board.

00:20:00.040 --> 00:20:01.384
What's the uh golf kitchen culinary excellence awards?

00:20:01.384 --> 00:20:02.205
Um, that is in its fifth year.

00:20:02.205 --> 00:20:02.727
That's the event.

00:20:02.727 --> 00:20:05.692
I just um, we had to drop one year at 2020, obviously.

00:20:05.692 --> 00:20:07.441
So we didn't do the awards.

00:20:07.441 --> 00:20:13.385
We started in 2018 and the idea is to grow that event, to make it international.

00:20:13.385 --> 00:20:40.472
To make it international and in 2022, which was a really challenging year for everybody we moved it to April, but that's the event that I just postponed it coming up with a new date because it's too close to another event and some of those chefs want to play in the tournament, because we have a tournament associated with it now and I want it to be really big this time.

00:20:40.472 --> 00:20:45.287
So we're postponing it and we'll just come up with a new date which will be announced.

00:20:45.287 --> 00:20:48.632
I'm thinking September, october.

00:20:50.074 --> 00:20:51.336
Okay, do you know where?

00:20:52.619 --> 00:20:53.963
Oh, it'll still be at Glen Arbor.

00:20:54.506 --> 00:20:56.771
Oh, gotcha, gotcha, yeah, just moving it.

00:20:57.400 --> 00:20:58.526
Yeah, just have to move it.

00:20:58.526 --> 00:21:18.359
I want that event to develop in a big way that we have chefs on the golf course club, chefs playing golf on the golf course Club, chefs are cooking at the event and then you have your awards and grow it and then have it internationally.

00:21:18.359 --> 00:21:28.307
That's what I, that's my dream, if I could get a major sponsor and move then, we can move it around the country yeah every year.

00:21:28.327 --> 00:21:34.301
We can do it at a new location um and then potentially have international um.

00:21:34.301 --> 00:21:43.306
But you've got to have the big sponsors for that or get really creative yeah, well, I've done that a lot.

00:21:43.306 --> 00:21:46.551
I've had enough of that if you.

00:21:46.672 --> 00:21:48.941
So I'm just thinking about fooding and getting hungry.

00:21:48.941 --> 00:21:56.891
Now, if you had to choose one food dish to represent golf kitchen, what food dish would it be?

00:21:57.551 --> 00:22:00.675
oh, my goodness, that's a tough question.

00:22:00.675 --> 00:22:11.021
In the whole time that I've traveled, I have never come across the same recipe from any chef anywhere.

00:22:11.021 --> 00:22:17.881
That's how much food recipes there are on the planet ever Like.

00:22:17.881 --> 00:22:19.567
I just like all foods.

00:22:19.567 --> 00:22:26.012
So for me to say it signifies one type of food, it does not.

00:22:26.012 --> 00:22:27.586
It's all-encompassing.

00:22:27.586 --> 00:22:33.071
The portfolio of recipes is insane.

00:22:33.071 --> 00:22:37.365
You know we have Vietnam in there, we've got Singapore, we've got China.

00:22:37.365 --> 00:22:39.381
We've got Singapore, we've got China, we've got Indonesia.

00:22:39.381 --> 00:22:46.673
There's South America, mexico, dubai, spain, france, corsica.

00:22:46.673 --> 00:22:51.448
You know it's very international, so everything's always new and fresh.

00:22:51.448 --> 00:22:55.962
That's why I really want to get back to international clubs as well.

00:22:55.962 --> 00:22:57.523
Like doing like.

00:22:57.523 --> 00:23:04.712
I'm hoping that we can get either golf, kitchen travel edition, all Asia, that's what I'm hoping.

00:23:05.554 --> 00:23:07.076
Ooh, that would be good.

00:23:07.698 --> 00:23:14.526
And then I'm thinking of doing a pastry edition, because nobody focuses on the pastry chefs these days and I thought why not do a pastry edition?

00:23:14.526 --> 00:23:18.650
And it's all pastries from clubs all over the place.

00:23:19.111 --> 00:23:19.531
I'm trying to think.

00:23:19.531 --> 00:23:25.191
My head was going into funny words with pastries and chefs and periodicals.

00:23:25.191 --> 00:23:26.574
I don't know my brain was going off.

00:23:26.574 --> 00:23:33.712
How often are you putting out content for Golf Kitchen?

00:23:34.560 --> 00:23:36.167
We're back on a quarterly now.

00:23:36.167 --> 00:23:41.967
We had a bit of a hiccup with the, the current edition, coming out.

00:23:41.967 --> 00:23:43.730
It's been a bit late with the printing.

00:23:43.730 --> 00:23:51.201
That's why I brought the digital version out first and their print version gets shipped and hopefully that's not going to happen again.

00:23:51.201 --> 00:23:52.542
It's not.

00:23:52.542 --> 00:23:59.413
The snow caused a lot of delays because the printer's in Canada, so it's a bit late, but better late than never.

00:24:00.974 --> 00:24:07.713
Yeah, and it's one I think I feel like now, excuse me, it's kind of like anything that's unexpected.

00:24:07.713 --> 00:24:08.986
It's kind of like, well, all right.

00:24:08.986 --> 00:24:12.109
Like to me like nothing is a surprise anymore.

00:24:12.109 --> 00:24:14.185
Like even if you have like a deadline that you know is early and still like late.

00:24:14.185 --> 00:24:14.828
It's like, oh, the shipper's late.

00:24:14.828 --> 00:24:17.660
Like like even if, even if you have like a a deadline that you know is early and still like late.

00:24:17.660 --> 00:24:19.505
So like like oh, the shippers late.

00:24:19.505 --> 00:24:21.431
Like oh, it makes sense, sounds about right.

00:24:21.431 --> 00:24:24.809
Like nothing nothing surprises me anymore with with almost anything.

00:24:25.299 --> 00:24:27.846
Well, plus it's the public holidays around.

00:24:27.846 --> 00:24:36.391
Anywhere between, like, thanksgiving and president's day, there's either going to be snow, storms and then there's a public holiday.

00:24:36.391 --> 00:24:41.227
I'm like it's public holiday and so they're closed, so it's a.

00:24:41.227 --> 00:24:46.955
It's the worst time of year to have anything shipped or printed.

00:24:46.955 --> 00:24:50.087
But you know, now that we're up to date and everything, it's fine.

00:24:50.087 --> 00:24:52.326
It's not like it hasn't happened in the past.

00:24:53.529 --> 00:24:59.589
Yeah, Is your family involved at all with with golf kitchen or in the culinary or golf or club?

00:25:00.801 --> 00:25:04.086
no, no, my oldest daughter works in technology.

00:25:04.086 --> 00:25:08.213
She's a um cto recruiter in manhattan.

00:25:08.213 --> 00:25:09.461
Uh, she has her own business.

00:25:09.461 --> 00:25:15.307
And then my younger works in the like veterinary field.

00:25:15.307 --> 00:25:24.101
Oh, we love our doggies here she's a really good um editor, though she just hates doing it.

00:25:24.101 --> 00:25:31.481
She's really good at it like she'll spot any like even a dot that shouldn't be on the document.

00:25:31.481 --> 00:25:34.647
I just wish she loved it.

00:25:50.681 --> 00:25:52.405
Out of all the chefs that you've gotten to experience and work with.

00:25:52.405 --> 00:25:56.438
Was there anyone that had a particularly good story or story that resonated or inspired you maybe a little bit more?

00:25:56.438 --> 00:26:01.627
There's quite a few, inspirational, I would say.

00:26:01.627 --> 00:26:14.683
I don't want to kind of hurt people's feelings, you know no, but there's a chef at Bonnie Breyer in New York and he's kind of.

00:26:14.683 --> 00:26:39.191
He was a veteran and he came back with post-traumatic stress disorder and I was fascinated by his story because it was very different from the average and he openly discusses his PTSD and how he utilizes that at work, how he does a lot of charity work in the city.

00:26:39.191 --> 00:26:47.867
He's just joined the fire brigade and he's doing his firefighters Like and this guy's works is butt off.

00:26:47.867 --> 00:26:50.404
He's like a really good chef, top class.

00:26:50.404 --> 00:26:55.728
His name is Chris Reverend, has a huge following, but he's just can't stand the heat.

00:26:56.161 --> 00:26:57.105
Join the fire brigade.

00:26:57.105 --> 00:26:59.321
Not even not even get out of the kitchen.

00:26:59.321 --> 00:26:59.622
Stand the heat.

00:26:59.622 --> 00:27:00.183
Join the fire brigade.

00:27:00.183 --> 00:27:01.145
Like not even not even get out of the kitchen.

00:27:01.165 --> 00:27:01.886
Just go join the fire brigade.

00:27:01.886 --> 00:27:02.347
Wow, this is so cool.

00:27:02.347 --> 00:27:08.664
You know, um he's he's very, very um respected.

00:27:08.664 --> 00:27:10.928
He's a really kind man.

00:27:10.928 --> 00:27:24.222
He's very kind to his staff, he gives them all these opportunities to excel, so I would say he would be one of the more inspirational chefs.

00:27:24.242 --> 00:27:40.224
Then, you know, there's chefs all over the world that you know I could talk about for ages, but there's one topic I do want to broach with you is that right now, the golf industry is booming, right.

00:27:40.224 --> 00:27:44.236
That doesn't mean it's going to boom forever, right.

00:27:44.236 --> 00:28:08.805
So, with all these members joining clubs right now and there's big waiting lists all over the place, that means we need more culinary talent and, unfortunately, a lot of chefs are going to be retiring soon and there's not enough talent in a 10 to 20-year period to fill those positions.

00:28:08.805 --> 00:28:30.538
So somehow the industry has to do something, and I hope they're thinking ahead, because I've spoken to recruiters and they're expecting, like 2025 to be really critical staff shortage, to be really critical staff shortage, and you know I've been seeing this happening for a long time.

00:28:34.125 --> 00:28:37.325
I've spoken to a lot of chefs that are going to retire because people call me all the time to say, hey, do you have a chef that wants to work over here?

00:28:37.325 --> 00:28:38.991
Do you know a chef that wants to work here?

00:28:38.991 --> 00:28:40.691
Do you know who's moving around?

00:28:40.691 --> 00:28:40.924
Like?

00:28:40.924 --> 00:29:04.893
There's a lot of competition and it's going to get worse, because when I was started remember, I said when I first started this, it was really hard to find a club that had decent cuisine in 2010, and the private a lot of the private clubs didn't want to, um, didn't want anyone to see what their chef was making, so so you'd just get the door closed.

00:29:04.893 --> 00:29:07.057
Now it's all different.

00:29:07.057 --> 00:29:28.935
Now they're spending $20 million on new kitchens all over the country and they need people that are talented and skilled to run those kitchens, and I don't know how it's going to pan out, because they don't have enough trained chefs of high caliber to replace them or to fill the retiree chef position.

00:29:29.757 --> 00:29:39.836
It's a big problem I've had a few guests where, uh, you know, saying almost the same thing like 24 is going to be an interesting roadway to see how 25 is going to look.

00:29:39.836 --> 00:29:45.029
Uh, just, you know each has their own certain thing that they're, you know, involved when are looking at.

00:29:45.029 --> 00:29:47.413
But yeah, uh, staffing is huge.

00:29:47.413 --> 00:30:00.295
I know a lot of clubs just the people I've been talking to and having on it's, you know a lot of them are focusing, you know, have and still are heavily on the youth and the children, the kids of the schools, and trying to showcase to them.

00:30:00.295 --> 00:30:06.356
You know even high schools and middle schools about private clubs, culinary school, all of that.

00:30:06.625 --> 00:30:24.287
You know that world and to show that private clubs, uh, whether it's management or any kind of place in it, you don't technically need a formal education to come in and be a part, like, as long as you're willing to learn, have a good personality, you know you, you have good, you know morals or you know whatever.

00:30:24.307 --> 00:30:26.796
Uh, whether it's you know the chef, food and beverage, you know you're, you have good, you know morals or you know whatever.

00:30:26.816 --> 00:30:42.075
Uh, whether it's you know the chef, food and beverage, you know anything like uh, so it's just trying to get people and show, like, what the private club world is and and opening up, uh, and you know a little, I don't want to say a little toot to myself, but, um, that's sort of my goal is bringing other people in to show how great the private club industry is.

00:30:43.375 --> 00:30:48.471
You know, whether it's if you like architecture, like hey, there's architects who focus just on building beautiful clubs.

00:30:48.471 --> 00:30:52.971
If you like finance and money, there's people who focus just on finance and money for clubs.

00:30:52.971 --> 00:30:56.028
Hey, if you're in the culinary world, private club world could be.

00:30:56.028 --> 00:30:59.928
You know, granted, it all still boils down to making sure you find the right club and the right club.

00:30:59.928 --> 00:31:20.111
That's, you know, running well and has the right staff, which is also also key, because if you have a great, a great chef that you bring in, but you know, between the gm and the board and some other things, if you know everything else isn't in in a line, then you know it's not going to be a good, a good fit there, but um, yeah, it's going to be interesting.

00:31:20.172 --> 00:31:30.736
24, 25, I think One of the things that bothers me is I remember the last recession and the first thing that went was the club membership.

00:31:30.736 --> 00:31:47.278
So when you have so many people all over the country joining clubs, what happens when they can't get enough staff because there's just too many people and too many clubs that need really good culinary talent?

00:31:47.278 --> 00:32:01.085
And then what happens when, if something happens like a recession, like with all these wars going on all over the place, like anything could happen right now and it could become unstable again.

00:32:01.085 --> 00:32:04.596
So it's really hard to predict the future.

00:32:04.596 --> 00:32:08.055
But I'm not the only one that is thinking this.

00:32:08.055 --> 00:32:10.792
I've spoken to a lot of chefs who are retiring.

00:32:10.792 --> 00:32:15.135
They already have a hard time getting talent in the kitchen as it is.

00:32:15.135 --> 00:32:31.398
So when they're gone, it's like and the Grey Oaks, they're on the cover of this current issue in Naples, Florida, when I was down there, they have 40 international staff 40.

00:32:32.539 --> 00:32:33.000
Four zero.

00:32:33.224 --> 00:32:35.473
In the kitchen yeah, food and beverage 40.

00:32:35.473 --> 00:32:38.894
Because they've got to get staff from somewhere.

00:32:38.894 --> 00:32:45.694
So everyone has to use these visas, because the US kids don't seem to want to work in the club industry.

00:32:45.694 --> 00:32:47.467
So it's like, how do you get?

00:32:47.467 --> 00:32:52.218
You have to get outside of golf number one to get more staff.

00:32:52.218 --> 00:33:01.771
So you've got to try to pick up all the people that wanted to go to work in restaurants and let them know there's these amazing positions in the private club industry.

00:33:01.771 --> 00:33:02.615
But they don't know, they're not aware.

00:33:02.615 --> 00:33:04.161
And if they are aware, there's two kinds of in the private club industry.

00:33:04.161 --> 00:33:05.285
But they don't know, they're not aware.

00:33:05.285 --> 00:33:08.835
And if they are aware, there's two kind of categories.

00:33:08.835 --> 00:33:09.865
There's the.

00:33:09.865 --> 00:33:18.173
They still think it's, you know, old people playing golf and eating hamburgers or they're intimidated.

00:33:18.173 --> 00:33:30.571
There's those two categories and if you can't get outside the industry you're not going to be able to pull in those people yeah what's your opinion on that?

00:33:32.315 --> 00:33:37.807
I think the ones that I think the good ones are going to continue to do well.

00:33:37.807 --> 00:33:41.346
So you know forgive me the, the club that you mentioned that has their own logo for the.

00:33:41.346 --> 00:33:42.228
You know their own branding for the.

00:33:42.228 --> 00:33:44.054
You know their own branding for the kitchen.

00:33:44.054 --> 00:33:47.944
You know, I think everyone you know will experience something.

00:33:47.944 --> 00:33:56.836
But I feel as though those clubs, the ones who have their brand, established their identities you know they have their, they take care of their employees.

00:33:56.836 --> 00:33:59.693
I think they're going to continue and we'll be fine.

00:33:59.785 --> 00:34:11.835
I think it's the clubs that either took for granted what the pandemic brought to them, because a lot of clubs I think were in in, you know, not a good place.

00:34:11.835 --> 00:34:40.268
The pandemic came and saved a lot of clubs and those clubs I think are gonna, are starting you can kind of sort of start, start to see it now as things are starting to level off and things are going back to normal, or, you know, however you want to describe's going on, they're now back to where they were because they didn't take what they had I don't want to say as serious, but when they should have been putting money into things or doing whatever they you know just oh, this is great, we're going to be fine.

00:34:40.268 --> 00:35:05.115
What they were supposed to, to enhance their clubs, whether it's, you know, getting their technology up to date, whether it's the course, the interior, the upgrades, whatever it is, staffing management I think those ones are going to start, you know, I think it's going to go back to pre-pandemic right, where that sort of like level was the ones who do it well, who have, you know, a brand and they, you know, like, for example, tcc the country club.

00:35:05.115 --> 00:35:08.264
They, you know a brand and they, you know, like, for example, tcc the country club.

00:35:08.264 --> 00:35:10.827
They, you know their their staff is the squirrel squad.

00:35:10.827 --> 00:35:15.025
You know, I think when you have something like that that has an identity, that you're not just you know you're, you're an employer of choice.

00:35:15.025 --> 00:35:15.947
You want to be there.

00:35:16.389 --> 00:35:16.650
I think.

00:35:17.452 --> 00:35:32.889
That's, I think I think they're going to, you know they're all going to experience challenges, but I think they're going to be fine.

00:35:32.889 --> 00:35:36.197
It's the ones that, um, you know, took for granted, or just, uh, relying on other things, I don't know, I don't know.

00:35:36.197 --> 00:35:37.820
They were scrambling like what, say, aspartac valley?

00:35:37.820 --> 00:35:51.253
Um, in the one that I was telling you about, they, um, they already have a big, giant farm on their property that has that they were already doing grocery deliveries before the pandemic even hit.

00:35:51.253 --> 00:35:57.391
So when the pandemic happened, they already had all that in place, because they were already doing it.

00:35:57.632 --> 00:36:18.393
And then they, they outdid themselves with their farm yeah so I found that really, really cool yeah, yeah, no, I think it definitely is going to be interesting because we can say anything we we we want, but who knows what could happen it's like it's right back to the wild, wild west.

00:36:18.393 --> 00:36:20.737
Um, that's what I called the pandemic.

00:36:20.737 --> 00:36:22.748
That was fun times, uh but, yeah.

00:36:22.788 --> 00:36:28.931
So I, I think the ones are gonna, are gonna do fine, uh, I think the right people if they just find the right clubs.

00:36:28.931 --> 00:36:42.945
I think that that that's it too is there's a lot of people who I don't say people who but you know, just because you want to work at a club doesn't mean that you might be the right fit for it either, and that's both for members and for staff.

00:36:42.945 --> 00:36:49.536
Uh, because every club does have, you know, just like any business has its own identity and you know their own personality, so to speak.

00:36:49.536 --> 00:37:10.467
So, um, I think you know, making sure the right person is at the right club in the right position, um, I think that's also a thing too is making sure that the staff vibes well and you know everyone's on that, that same train also, um, I agree, like right now there's there's such a lot of movement.

00:37:11.349 --> 00:37:13.655
I'm noticing staff are moving around.

00:37:13.655 --> 00:37:17.889
It's usually the really good, the top clubs, that their staff never leave.

00:37:17.889 --> 00:37:24.630
They're there forever, um, whereas some of the other clubs, you know, they're jumping.

00:37:24.630 --> 00:37:26.094
Where do I want to work?

00:37:27.206 --> 00:37:29.753
Well, that has to do with, you know, board changes also.

00:37:29.753 --> 00:37:39.927
So if you want to get down into like the nitty gritty of it, it's, you know, the most club managers last two, three, four years, if that, because that's how long the the average board board tenure is.

00:37:39.927 --> 00:37:41.527
Um, so you know.

00:37:41.527 --> 00:37:46.909
But with that, you know then if, uh, if a, if a manager leaves, sometimes they bring a lot of their team with them, you know.

00:37:46.909 --> 00:38:01.335
Or if the, if the team really liked them in this, in the GMs out and they go to another, another good club, it's not uncommon for them to bring a staff member to three, sometimes more, um, all at once, but also like over time.

00:38:01.335 --> 00:38:05.157
Sometimes it's not always immediate, but like there's ones you know where, you'll see, you know this.

00:38:05.157 --> 00:38:18.684
It might take a year or two, but like the staff slowly will like trickle over and they will move quite, quite a distance to be with the right club and the right leadership With them.

00:38:21.985 --> 00:38:26.099
So, yeah, I think, to sum it it up, I would say probably identity, I think.

00:38:26.099 --> 00:38:28.148
I think the ones who identify themselves.

00:38:28.148 --> 00:38:45.757
As you know, I don't want good clubs, but whatever you want to call that, I think they're going to be, they're going to be okay, but I think the staffing is going to be interesting to watch, uh, and I'll be down at the cmaa conference in two weeks, uh, so it'd be interesting to hear um and see what the what the buzz is about that down there also.

00:38:46.664 --> 00:38:48.934
Yeah, I think that will be an interesting conference.

00:38:48.934 --> 00:38:50.371
I'm glad you're going to that.

00:38:50.371 --> 00:38:53.673
You're going to interview people at the conference, correct?

00:38:54.094 --> 00:38:56.974
Oh yeah, content galore, content galore.

00:38:56.974 --> 00:38:59.264
So what's on the future?

00:38:59.264 --> 00:39:03.817
What are you excited for with Golf Kitchen as we wrap this up?

00:39:04.565 --> 00:39:09.711
I'm excited to continue to expand the publication, to grow our subscription base.

00:39:09.711 --> 00:39:27.891
I want to get in clubs internationally, like I said, so we can just keep bringing more and more stories in the industry on the culinary side and be more of an influence to chefs so they can see you know what someone's cooking overseas.

00:39:27.891 --> 00:39:35.224
But I do want to get the program off the ground, the international stage program which is reciprocal.

00:39:35.224 --> 00:39:44.815
So a club in Spain would pay for their chef to come over here, whether they were let's just make up, say it was Kiowa Island or something like that.

00:39:44.815 --> 00:39:48.284
So they come over to Kiowa Island, it was Kiowa Island or something like that.

00:39:48.284 --> 00:39:51.818
So they come over to Kiowa Island and then Kiowa Island sends their team over to their property.

00:39:52.025 --> 00:39:57.931
And I'd like to kind of find a travel agent to work with because there will be a lot of insurance involved.

00:39:57.931 --> 00:40:00.791
So it just would be.

00:40:00.791 --> 00:40:11.576
It would keep chefs interested, it would keep chefs at the club, knowing their membership cares enough to send them over there and to bring reciprocal chefs in.

00:40:11.576 --> 00:40:19.231
It's happening a little bit, but I think to get younger people involved you've got to have something to offer.

00:40:19.231 --> 00:40:25.076
All the restaurant chefs did that all their lives.

00:40:25.076 --> 00:40:27.148
It's all the restaurant chefs did that all their lives.

00:40:27.148 --> 00:40:34.019
They've all gone to Paul Bocuse and Alinea or wherever they're going all over the world to do these stages.

00:40:34.019 --> 00:40:36.954
We need to do this in the private club industry.

00:40:38.525 --> 00:40:40.172
Yeah, I like that.

00:40:40.172 --> 00:40:42.710
That's a good campaign.

00:40:42.710 --> 00:40:45.148
I like that platform.

00:40:45.148 --> 00:40:46.030