July 28, 2025

452: Management by Wandering Around: Mentorship, Member Magic, and Mistakes with Rollie Carlson

In this episode of Private Club Radio, we chat with Rollie Carlson,
Managing Director of the Upper Midwest CMAA Chapter and a longtime leader in the private club industry.

With a career spanning from senior-level retail marketing to general management at top clubs, Rollie brings a rare mix of operational insight, people-first leadership, and a deep passion for mentorship.

We talk what makes a great club professional, not just in skills, but in mindset.

Rollie shares lessons from his time with American Golf Corporation, his years running Hudson Golf Club and St. Cloud Country Club, and how he’s spent the past decade growing one of CMAA’s most respected regional chapters.

Key themes include:

Why “yes” should always be your starting point
The biggest career mistake young professionals make
How to build trust across teams and generations
And why Rollie’s “management by wandering around” philosophy still works

You’ll also hear powerful insights on work-life synergy, creating culture from the ground up, and how to spot (and be) a great mentee.

Whether you’re a student, a mid-level manager, or a seasoned GM, this episode is full of real-world wisdom and practical leadership takeaways—delivered with warmth, wit, and Rollie’s signature sincerity.

Follow us on the socials

Private Club Radio Instagram
Private Club Radio Linkedin

Denny Corby Instagram
Denny Corby Linkedin

00:00 - Introduction to Raleigh Carlson

09:54 - Mentoring Club Management Students

18:14 - The People-First Approach to Leadership

28:54 - Avoiding Career Mistakes in Club Management

38:34 - The Evolution of Club Industry Culture

47:04 - Growing Diversity in Club Leadership

WEBVTT

00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:14.683
Hey everybody, welcome to the Private Club Radio Show, where we give you the scoop on all things private golf and country clubs, from mastering leadership and management, food and beverage excellence, member engagement secrets, board governance and everything in between, all while keeping it fun and light.

00:00:14.683 --> 00:00:20.364
Whether you're a club veteran just getting your feet wet or somewhere in the middle, you are in the right place.

00:00:20.364 --> 00:00:22.088
I'm your host, denny Corby.

00:00:22.088 --> 00:00:27.039
Welcome to the show place.

00:00:27.039 --> 00:00:27.641
I'm your host, denny Corby.

00:00:27.641 --> 00:00:28.082
Welcome to the show.

00:00:28.103 --> 00:00:31.109
In this episode, I am joined by one of the most respected, genuinely beloved figures in the club space.

00:00:31.109 --> 00:00:33.460
He's the guy who makes you feel like you belong.

00:00:33.460 --> 00:00:37.911
The second you meet him, I am chatting with none other than Raleigh Carlson.

00:00:37.911 --> 00:00:53.966
He's been in the game for decades, from retail and marketing to regional operations with American Golf to leading private clubs in Wisconsin and Minnesota, and for the last 14 years he's been the beating heart and managing director behind the Upper Midwest CMAA chapter.

00:00:53.966 --> 00:01:14.507
I first got to work with Raleigh and meet him as I was emceeing and getting ready for the Midwest Regional Educational Forum with him and Kathy Collins, and it was amazing watching Raleigh do what he does best, which is make every single person that he comes in contact with, feel welcomed, valued and inspired to lead with purpose.

00:01:14.507 --> 00:01:28.346
So in this episode we talk about him and his career and we get into some big topics from mentorship to the danger of chasing money over a mission and how to build a career that doesn't just grow but also gives back.

00:01:28.346 --> 00:01:36.212
We also touch on the biggest mistakes people make when changing jobs and we also talk about the biggest mistakes people make when changing jobs.

00:01:36.212 --> 00:01:44.593
What makes somebody coachable and how and why helping others without needing the credit somehow gets you all the credit.

00:01:44.593 --> 00:01:45.435
It's amazing.

00:01:45.435 --> 00:01:52.441
I am so psyched and stoked like stokeded Now.

00:01:52.561 --> 00:01:56.471
I'm very excited for this episode and cannot wait for you guys to dive in.

00:01:56.471 --> 00:02:08.350
But before we do, I just want to give you a quick update If you haven't heard about already a little fun management event I am doing the end of September in Monticello, new York, at the Monticello Motor Club.

00:02:08.350 --> 00:02:34.750
It is going to be such an amazing time Management in motion, racing, drifting, auto-axing, high-speed laps, but also learning and getting education from other GMs in the space who spend time on the track and how that relates to leadership and management and what we all do at clubs every single day.

00:02:34.750 --> 00:02:40.493
I am so excited for this If you want to learn more, head on over to privateclubradiocom.

00:02:40.493 --> 00:02:44.268
Slash management in motion or just privateclubradiocom slash mim dot com.

00:02:44.268 --> 00:02:46.816
Slash management in motion or just private club radio dot com slash mim.

00:02:46.816 --> 00:02:51.610
It's affordable, it's inexpensive and we are going to have absolutely such an amazing time.

00:02:51.610 --> 00:02:58.427
Great people, great networking, great education, great fun, great food and I know the guest list so far.

00:02:58.427 --> 00:03:03.680
It is packed with some really fun people from all over the country.

00:03:03.680 --> 00:03:09.564
We are limiting it to 50 spots and there's over 30 taken so far, so not too many left.

00:03:09.564 --> 00:03:11.820
Make sure you register as well.

00:03:12.062 --> 00:03:15.572
I just want to give a big thanks to all of our show partners here on Private Club Radio.

00:03:15.572 --> 00:03:17.066
It means the absolute world.

00:03:17.066 --> 00:03:19.669
You're going to hear about them throughout the ads and throughout the episodes.

00:03:19.669 --> 00:03:26.306
If you're in the market or looking to learn a little bit more about them, please hit them up and let them know that you're reaching out because of Private Club Radio.

00:03:26.306 --> 00:03:27.606
Enough about all that.

00:03:27.606 --> 00:03:28.747
Let's get to the episode.

00:03:28.747 --> 00:03:31.350
Private Club Radio listeners, let's welcome to the show.

00:03:31.350 --> 00:03:35.634
Raleigh Carlson, how are things in your world?

00:03:35.634 --> 00:03:37.796
Where is Homebase for you again?

00:03:43.919 --> 00:03:49.372
Homebase is a northwest Minneapolis suburb, Twin City area suburb by the name of Maple Grove, Minnesota, and we finally got a little relief from the scorching heat the last three days.

00:03:50.080 --> 00:03:54.186
See, we finally are just getting heat here, like we're just getting warm.

00:03:54.681 --> 00:03:57.532
We send it to you with our love, yeah.

00:04:00.802 --> 00:04:02.408
Is that where you're born and raised?

00:04:04.080 --> 00:04:11.449
Well, I grew up in Minnesota, lived in Denver for 15 years, came back to Minnesota Twin City area in 2002.

00:04:11.449 --> 00:04:18.692
Got you Because there was one grandchild then and we assumed there would be more, and now we have five.

00:04:20.781 --> 00:04:21.846
Wow, popping them out.

00:04:22.199 --> 00:04:24.709
Yeah, well, they range in age from 14 to 24.

00:04:33.139 --> 00:04:33.641
That's a fun age is.

00:04:33.641 --> 00:04:34.925
It is the older they get, the better it is to engage with them.

00:04:34.925 --> 00:04:35.826
Yeah, do you get to see?

00:04:35.867 --> 00:04:36.088
them often.

00:04:36.088 --> 00:04:36.829
Oh yeah, we do they.

00:04:36.829 --> 00:04:37.632
They live fairly.

00:04:37.632 --> 00:04:41.567
They live fairly close, so, yeah, we do get to see them often that's cool.

00:04:41.646 --> 00:04:43.913
Are any of them future club people?

00:04:44.815 --> 00:04:47.201
I don't think they're going to be future club people.

00:04:47.201 --> 00:04:51.689
A couple of them have, uh have worked in hospitality.

00:04:51.689 --> 00:05:00.773
In fact, uh, our middle son, chad's wife nicole, used to work for me at the hudson golf club in hudson, wisconsin, and that's how they met.

00:05:00.773 --> 00:05:06.771
Oh, no way, oh yeah, so see that the club thing just keeps coming back around.

00:05:07.232 --> 00:05:08.173
Yeah, yeah.

00:05:08.173 --> 00:05:10.668
And now, how did you get into the club space?

00:05:10.668 --> 00:05:12.185
How did you find your way in?

00:05:12.821 --> 00:05:18.872
I found my way into clubs when we were living in Denver in the early 90s.

00:05:18.872 --> 00:05:29.666
I went to work for American Golf Corporation and at that time American golf corporation was the largest golf management company well, at least the united states, they alleged the world.

00:05:29.666 --> 00:05:44.988
But the united states and um started out working for them and, in specific clubs, end up being the regional director responsible for all of american golf's private and daily fee properties in Colorado and New Mexico.

00:05:45.670 --> 00:05:46.149
Interesting.

00:05:46.149 --> 00:05:51.115
And then what got you to executive director now?

00:05:53.959 --> 00:05:55.742
What was the rest of your career path like?

00:05:55.742 --> 00:06:01.434
Well, I joined CMA in 2003 when I was a general manager of the Hudson Wisconsin Golf Club.

00:06:01.434 --> 00:06:26.220
And when I was with American Golf, they wouldn't support us joining CMA because, you know, all of the programs within American Golf to run the courses and so on and so forth are, I wouldn't say, proprietary, but they're of their own birth and so American Golf kind of sort of didn't want any outside influence in the operations of our properties.

00:06:26.220 --> 00:06:39.303
But when we moved back here and ended up at the Hudson Golf Club, I ended up connecting with a longtime chapter member by the name of Dick Haugen, who has since retired, and he got me involved.

00:06:39.303 --> 00:06:40.327
And so here we are.

00:06:40.327 --> 00:06:46.276
I was president of the chapter in 2010.

00:06:46.276 --> 00:06:50.180
We are.

00:06:50.180 --> 00:06:51.906
I was president of the chapter in 2010.

00:06:51.925 --> 00:06:54.394
And when I retired in 2013, they asked me to be the managing director.

00:06:54.413 --> 00:06:55.055
And I said, well, of course.

00:06:55.055 --> 00:06:56.199
So yeah, been involved for a long time.

00:06:56.199 --> 00:07:10.473
It's a great opportunity to stay connected in our industry and also another great opportunity is to work with and encourage young people interested in hospitality to consider entering the club world.

00:07:11.100 --> 00:07:16.252
And we do a lot of that with there in CMEA land.

00:07:16.252 --> 00:07:30.596
There are a number of CMEA student chapters and our chapter and Kathy Collins, who manages the Wisconsin Badger chapter, were the senior chapters for UW Stout in Menominee, wisconsin, for their CMEA chapter.

00:07:30.596 --> 00:07:33.428
So we work closely with them.

00:07:33.428 --> 00:07:55.875
We financially support the club management course in their hospitality program in the fall semester and I wouldn't say we're recruiting, but by the time they start the club management class right after Labor Day and finish after Thanksgiving they know a good deal about the industry and a good number of them end up going into the club industry.

00:07:56.836 --> 00:07:58.776
They are speaking fluent Clubbanese.

00:07:59.898 --> 00:08:00.418
Yes, they are.

00:08:00.418 --> 00:08:13.819
Well, we involve them.

00:08:13.819 --> 00:08:14.581
You know they get to, they get to meet.

00:08:14.581 --> 00:08:17.605
You know of the 12 or 13 Mondays in the fall semester, depending on when Thanksgiving is, nine or 10 of those Monday classes are.

00:08:17.605 --> 00:08:26.716
I personally don't conduct all of them, but are conducted by CMA members, whether they're local chapter members or connected to CMA on a regional basis or even a national basis.

00:08:26.716 --> 00:08:41.986
So we do a lot to really pull back the curtain on the club industry for these students and the maximum enrollment for those classes is 30, and it's been full with a waiting list the last three years.

00:08:42.589 --> 00:08:44.581
Heck, yeah, yeah.

00:08:44.581 --> 00:08:51.061
What sort of things do you think that they are surprised by when you quote unquote pull back the curtain, like.

00:08:51.061 --> 00:08:56.052
What do you think is like the common misconception from students to clubs?

00:08:56.864 --> 00:08:58.940
Well, I wouldn't call it a misconception.

00:08:58.940 --> 00:09:06.210
The vast majority, if not all of the students in the class really don't have a sense or vision or understanding of what clubs are.

00:09:06.210 --> 00:09:22.345
But as we go through the class and Kathy and I conduct a class early in the semester to kind of pull back the curtain and tell them all about clubs, and so we go around the room and have everybody tell us who they are, where they're from, why they're here and what they want to do in hospitality.

00:09:22.345 --> 00:09:32.831
And when they get all done and they want to do any number of things in hospitality when they get all done, we tell them you know what you can do any one of those or all of those in clubs, and it's easier.

00:09:32.831 --> 00:09:45.408
And the reason it's easier is because your customers are the members and they're not transient, and no disrespect to restaurants or hotels or you know, any other hospitality venues, but their eyes light up when they hear that.

00:09:46.900 --> 00:09:52.351
The fact that the people that they're going to be engaging with if they go in clubs are not transient.

00:09:52.351 --> 00:09:56.820
They're the members and for the most part it leads to great engagements.

00:09:56.820 --> 00:10:05.341
If you know and understand them, the members themselves, then in a lot of cases, if you pay attention, you can actually anticipate their needs.

00:10:05.341 --> 00:10:07.565
And that goes a long way to connecting.

00:10:08.346 --> 00:10:18.259
Well, I think on the flip side, because there's probably maybe some kids or people or personalities, whoever who want more of that transient.

00:10:18.259 --> 00:10:21.889
Maybe they don't want to be as in the relationship, they like more of the hotel stuff.

00:10:21.889 --> 00:10:23.995
So it also helps self-filter and find the right people, the right kind of hotel stuff.

00:10:23.995 --> 00:10:28.265
So it also helps self-filter and find the right people, the right kind of.

00:10:28.265 --> 00:10:35.585
I think it does take a certain personality, a certain person to really lead in the club space.

00:10:35.585 --> 00:10:45.440
There's many different areas in the club space, but to really lead and be a true consummate club professional, I think it's definitely a certain personality.

00:10:46.102 --> 00:10:47.567
Well, that's definitely true, denny.

00:10:47.567 --> 00:11:04.370
Some of the things that we tell them when Kathy and I are in that first meeting with them, is that wherever you go, you want to be involved in the initial steps of your career, where there's potentially a good training program so you can learn and grow.

00:11:04.370 --> 00:11:10.383
And we tell them flat out the best training programs within the entire hospitality industry are hotels.

00:11:10.383 --> 00:11:24.222
They really have excellent training programs and we always point out for an example and use Marriott or Hilton as examples Wonderful, wonderful training programs to help you develop, as examples, wonderful, wonderful training programs to help you develop.

00:11:24.222 --> 00:11:43.551
But we do tell them, if you succeed in hotels and you begin to grow, you almost don't get to unpack your suitcase, because if you're good in hotels, they will move you along, and it's a relative statement, but move you along at a fairly rapid pace Doesn't mean it's not a good career, but we just share with them.

00:11:43.551 --> 00:11:45.951
You know that that's that's you're going to.

00:11:45.951 --> 00:11:52.514
You're going to be real mobile if you end up deciding to stay in the hotel industry and keep going.

00:11:53.174 --> 00:12:01.298
Yeah, yeah, and you've had quite, a you know, unique background that includes both ops and marketing.

00:12:01.298 --> 00:12:06.961
How do you think that has shaped?

00:12:07.363 --> 00:12:09.648
how you've led and kind of coached and mentored others over the years.

00:12:09.648 --> 00:12:13.520
Well, because it provides a pretty broad horizon to what you can do in clubs.

00:12:13.520 --> 00:12:32.341
It helps me tap into what the real hot buttons or interest areas are with individuals and clubs, and not that I tell them how to do it or what to do, but I can share examples of experiences that help lead to a growth career from that standpoint.

00:12:32.341 --> 00:12:40.024
And when it comes right down to it, this is the people business and whether you're on the member side or the club management side, it's the people business.

00:12:40.024 --> 00:13:03.470
The club management side it's the people business and if you understand that, then it's easy and it's it's frankly, it's more fun because and not everybody you connect with in clubs, as far as members are concerned, are welcoming or interesting to, to spend some time with, but it's the people business and once, if you like people, this is a great industry for us.

00:13:04.572 --> 00:13:08.158
If you like people, this is a great industry for us.

00:13:08.178 --> 00:13:33.024
Yeah, Is there, you know kind of still on the younger managers, or even just like the younger professional side?

00:13:33.024 --> 00:13:36.692
Is there something, because you have your ear to the ground with them, is there anything that you know they maybe need to hear right now that they don't want to hear?

00:13:36.692 --> 00:13:38.635
Is there any like common things that are popping up, that or trends that maybe need to stop?

00:13:38.635 --> 00:13:38.996
Or that's a good.

00:13:38.996 --> 00:13:40.519
That's a good, that's a good question, because there's a couple of things.

00:13:40.519 --> 00:13:45.149
First of all, one of the things that we help them understand and hopefully they'll be comfortable with is to put themselves out there.

00:13:45.149 --> 00:13:49.000
In other words, you know, be open, be conversant, smile, engage with the members.

00:13:49.461 --> 00:14:10.614
The key word in the club business today and with respect to members is the experience, the word experience, and so, no matter what level you are in a management career in a club, in whatever area of the club, you play, to varying degrees, a a key role in the in, in providing that experience and, um, you know.

00:14:10.614 --> 00:14:12.500
So we tell them, don't be afraid to put yourself out there.

00:14:12.500 --> 00:14:14.566
Um, we, you know.

00:14:14.566 --> 00:14:18.461
We tell them various things, and I'm always kidded about this because I always tell them.

00:14:18.461 --> 00:14:22.111
I'll tell you what my mother always told me you have two ears and one mouth.

00:14:22.111 --> 00:14:27.225
Make sure you use them in that order.

00:14:27.524 --> 00:14:36.609
And when you engage with members as a club, as part of the staff of the club, you should don't hear what they say, listen to what they say.

00:14:36.609 --> 00:14:55.660
So if you're, you know, encountering a conversation that maybe a member has not had a real good experience or doesn't like something about the club, and again, no matter what you level at, make sure you clearly understand what they are trying to bring to your attention and then read it back to them to make sure you have it.

00:14:55.660 --> 00:15:01.861
And there's one word that can't be in a vocabulary when you're in the club business, and that word is no.

00:15:01.861 --> 00:15:03.725
Never say no.

00:15:03.725 --> 00:15:18.787
In most all cases, no matter what the club member is looking for or sharing with you, find a path to yes, whether it's in totality or various pieces of it, clear articulation and engaging with members.

00:15:18.787 --> 00:15:25.096
It's invaluable and the members really appreciate that too.

00:15:25.919 --> 00:15:29.947
Yeah, you know I'm in the camp of going for.

00:15:29.947 --> 00:15:37.653
Yes, I know there's other people who have a, you know a different point of view, which is totally fine, but to me I always love going for.

00:15:37.653 --> 00:15:39.461
Like oh my, yes, of course we can.

00:15:39.461 --> 00:15:41.105
It's going to have to.

00:15:41.105 --> 00:15:43.268
You know it's going to cost a million, it's going to.

00:15:43.268 --> 00:15:44.590
You know there's always a.

00:15:44.590 --> 00:15:46.111
But there of course we can do it.

00:15:46.111 --> 00:15:46.753
Yeah, it's going to have to.

00:15:46.753 --> 00:15:47.874
You know it's going to cost a million, it's going to.

00:15:47.894 --> 00:15:50.216
You know there's always a but there, of course we can do it.

00:15:50.216 --> 00:15:51.980
Yeah, of course we can totally do that.

00:15:51.980 --> 00:15:52.519
Yeah, Well, but that's not.

00:15:52.519 --> 00:16:12.202
But you're not, you're not off target at all, because when you get, when you get the conversation engaged like that, you can help them as a path to yes, and it may be totally what they're looking for, or a component of they're looking for, or what we have to do to get to where the member thinks we ought to go with something yeah, and you and you, you've coached a lot of people.

00:16:12.243 --> 00:16:13.746
You've you've mentored a lot of people.

00:16:13.746 --> 00:16:15.892
What's what, who?

00:16:15.892 --> 00:16:22.989
Who's your favorite type of person to coach, to mentor, and what makes somebody coachable and mentorable?

00:16:24.711 --> 00:16:27.735
I think it's one key word and it's sincerity.

00:16:27.735 --> 00:16:44.630
You know, if you've been around a long time and I have and you have you can tell if somebody's sincere in what they want to talk about or ask about or tell you about, and that sincerity thing is very important.

00:16:44.630 --> 00:16:52.068
Once you understand that and then you work closely with somebody and you're on a you know you're on a with your staff members.

00:16:52.068 --> 00:17:00.225
At least, my orientation was three priorities, in this order member satisfaction or, excuse me, co-worker satisfaction.

00:17:00.265 --> 00:17:02.986
Member satisfaction and then make your financial goals.

00:17:02.986 --> 00:17:21.846
Because if you provide a good, safe, clean workplace that's free of any harassment or anything from anybody and work closely with your coworkers whether it's a job or a career and help them grow or succeed or feel good about it, then that's going to show through to the member experience.

00:17:21.846 --> 00:17:25.405
And if you get those two right, you have an awfully good opportunity to make your financial goals.

00:17:25.405 --> 00:17:28.075
And if you get those two right, you have an awfully good opportunity to make your financial goals.

00:17:28.075 --> 00:17:42.923
But if you get those first two turned around and don't have coworker satisfaction number one, that's going to show through to the members as well and then you've got a real challenge in taking good care of your members after you've tried to take good care of your coworkers.

00:17:43.644 --> 00:17:47.128
Yeah, yeah, your, your vibe attracts your tribe.

00:17:47.128 --> 00:17:51.734
That's good, Well put yeah, and here here's a.

00:17:51.734 --> 00:17:54.400
Here's a second one for you.

00:17:54.400 --> 00:17:56.182
Be more interested than interesting.

00:17:56.863 --> 00:17:57.303
That's right.

00:17:57.303 --> 00:18:00.365
I like that one, that's right and there and there's there's.

00:18:00.365 --> 00:18:02.126
You know there's a there there's.

00:18:02.268 --> 00:18:45.174
you know there's a subtext to that, and that is you're not in a club, no matter what level you're serving as an employee, to have the light shine on you, and you don't want to do that because members will see through that right away and it doesn't work Well, and I think you know to get metaphorical I think is the right word is like when you shine enough light on the people around you, it brightens you in different ways, like you're still visible, you're still there, you know, and it you know, the the older I get to, the more it's like, the more you help others, and I think I don't know if it's a Jim Rohn quote or who you know who knows Brian Tracy, but it's like you know, if you help enough people achieve their goals, you'll achieve yours.

00:18:45.476 --> 00:18:48.971
Like, so just the more you just help and put the spotlight in front of other people.

00:18:48.971 --> 00:18:53.948
It just comes back on you multiple times over.

00:18:54.429 --> 00:19:13.076
Well, you know, the best part, the most fun about managing clubs and this applies to me too, being the managing director of a CMA chapter, and this applies to me, too, being the managing director of a CMEA chapter the best part about it is helping people understand how to get to where they want to go.

00:19:13.076 --> 00:19:23.563
And I used to do one thing in clubs all the time, and I did it every single morning, and I called it MBWA and it was management by wandering around.

00:19:23.563 --> 00:19:39.416
And you know, if you know your co-workers' first names, and before shift starts or whatever the case may be, if you're just present, you walk around and say you know, hi, bob, how you doing, hi, denny, how's things, how's your son?

00:19:39.416 --> 00:19:41.598
I understand he's playing hockey, or whatever the case may be.

00:19:41.598 --> 00:19:44.820
If you're just present, you walk around and say you know, hi, bob, how you doing, hi, denny, how's things, How's your son?

00:19:44.820 --> 00:19:45.821
I understand he's playing hockey or whatever.

00:19:45.842 --> 00:19:46.403
That way and do it sincerely.

00:19:46.403 --> 00:19:46.643
That way is.

00:19:46.643 --> 00:19:51.487
I mean, that's a pretty obvious way of showing that your coworkers, you really do care about them.

00:19:51.487 --> 00:19:58.154
And you know the old saying about you know my door's always open.

00:19:58.154 --> 00:19:58.897
You know to come into my office.

00:19:58.897 --> 00:19:59.539
The the the point.

00:19:59.539 --> 00:20:06.558
The other point to that is if you develop that relationship, then you're always open to them and they can come to you with questions.

00:20:06.558 --> 00:20:13.661
Now, if they come to you with questions or challenges within a department and you're the GM or the AGM, you want to.

00:20:13.661 --> 00:20:26.236
You want to understand what they tell you, but you don't step on the toes of their boss, you know another supervisor, point them in the right direction and then just understand and see what happens with it.

00:20:26.236 --> 00:20:29.762
I mean, to me that's just common sense.

00:20:29.762 --> 00:20:38.913
It's absolutely common sense to treat your co-workers that way it's absolutely common sense to treat your co-workers that way.

00:20:38.933 --> 00:20:52.935
Yeah, when it comes to mentors, mentees, what about on the flip side is what can or what are some traits or attributes or what are some ways that a young person can look up to or ask somebody like how does that relationship start between mentor, mentoree and?

00:20:52.935 --> 00:20:58.005
And what about if it's not even the person that they directly work with?

00:20:58.005 --> 00:21:01.661
So let's just say it's somebody that they just admire from a different club or whatever.

00:21:01.661 --> 00:21:05.180
How do you start that connection, that relationship?

00:21:07.493 --> 00:21:09.220
Well, there's a couple of ways to do it.

00:21:09.220 --> 00:21:15.980
The first way is it doesn't matter what management position you're in a club.

00:21:15.980 --> 00:21:18.724
As I've said before, get to know your people.

00:21:18.724 --> 00:21:28.392
You don't have to know them intimately, but get to know them to the point where, hopefully, they're comfortable coming to you and saying so and so and such and such and the other you know.

00:21:28.392 --> 00:21:32.461
The other part of it you know within, and I'll take it to within our chapter.

00:21:32.461 --> 00:21:40.452
It to within our chapter, within our chapter.

00:21:40.472 --> 00:21:42.780
As a managing director, you develop various depths in the relationships of all of your members.

00:21:42.780 --> 00:21:49.980
But if they believe what you say and you're honest and legitimate, then if they have a question or an issue, they'll come to you.

00:21:49.980 --> 00:21:55.153
It might be a question about something in club management where could I go?

00:21:55.153 --> 00:22:00.999
In other words, from step two to step three or as they go through their career.

00:22:00.999 --> 00:22:03.820
Answer it based on what you know.

00:22:03.820 --> 00:22:16.994
And if you don't actually know the specific answer or want to get something to them, tell them let me find that out for sure and let me get back to you.

00:22:16.994 --> 00:22:17.476
Live up to what you say.

00:22:17.476 --> 00:22:20.686
If you say you're going to get back to him, don't run into him a week later and say oh yeah, that's right, I owe you an answer.

00:22:22.952 --> 00:22:26.321
You know, what's really funny is I was just chatting with a GM today.

00:22:26.321 --> 00:22:31.857
He's a longtime client, friend, just a good person, and I say phone tag.

00:22:31.857 --> 00:22:39.071
He's been meaning to call me back for a while now and he thoroughly apologized today.

00:22:39.071 --> 00:22:51.496
It's so weird that you just brought that up because he made it a point to say no, like I've been trying to instill in myself and my team, if somebody gets back to you within 24 hours, like you, you get them some sort of response.

00:22:51.496 --> 00:22:53.641
It might not be the the one that everybody wants.

00:22:53.641 --> 00:22:58.016
It might say, hey, I need some more time, but like you, have to within 24 hours.

00:22:58.016 --> 00:22:59.419
So he's like I, he's like I.

00:22:59.419 --> 00:23:02.443
Am very sorry, it's just so weird how you just brought that up.

00:23:02.443 --> 00:23:03.305
That's so weird.

00:23:16.525 --> 00:23:17.589
And then the timely response is important.

00:23:17.589 --> 00:23:22.413
You know, do what you say, what you're going to do when you say you're going to do it, and then do it.

00:23:22.413 --> 00:23:29.980
If it's simply as simple as a Post-it note on your desk or somewhere that says you know, make sure you hook up with Denny at 2 o'clock on this Monday.

00:23:29.980 --> 00:23:35.125
If it's just a quick answer or I'm not done yet, I'll get back to you.

00:23:35.125 --> 00:23:45.795
At least you didn't leave any doubt in the mind of the recipient that you were working on or understood what they wanted.

00:23:45.836 --> 00:23:47.740
Again, it's common sense, but it's very, very simple to do it.

00:23:47.740 --> 00:23:49.522
You can have a Post-it note.

00:23:49.522 --> 00:23:53.710
You can write it on your hand.

00:23:53.710 --> 00:24:10.280
Everybody's got a mobile phone, you have a calendar in there, that'll, that'll, that'll ding and give you a notice of something, and it's okay, just have it right there, because when you get mired in the day-to-day activity and the minutiae and the dynamics, if you don't have a small reminder somewhere to tell you, it's easy to get by it.

00:24:10.280 --> 00:24:14.113
And then how do you feel an hour or two later when you were supposed to connect with somebody?

00:24:14.634 --> 00:24:29.313
yeah, but then again, the apology is very important yeah, is that you've you're you get to see and deal and hear with like a lot in the in the industry, probably more than the average person, just as for how much that that you do is there?

00:24:29.313 --> 00:24:31.457
Are there any career mistakes?

00:24:31.457 --> 00:24:39.699
You see over and over again that maybe people, if they, you know, took an extra second to maybe think about or just wait, you know, is there anything that you just see?

00:24:39.699 --> 00:24:42.453
Maybe people make you know a little misstep?

00:24:42.453 --> 00:24:47.051
I think, even though it's all learning curves, you know it's all learning.

00:24:47.173 --> 00:24:55.134
But I think I think the one that I see the most is changing jobs from one club to another and just making the move for money.

00:24:55.134 --> 00:25:10.438
It's not about the money and you know, in our chapter in Minnesota North South Dakota, part of Wisconsin the networking component of our chapter members is very strong Because in our business there's no secrets.

00:25:10.438 --> 00:25:12.898
Everybody knows what every other club is doing.

00:25:12.898 --> 00:25:16.641
I mean it's not like a secret strategy or anything.

00:25:16.641 --> 00:25:21.714
Everybody knows what everybody's doing, whether it's a club that's four miles from you or a club across town.

00:25:21.714 --> 00:25:38.069
But the whole point is, especially in a position of a managing director, you have a pretty good, you have pretty good insight into most, all of the clubs in your chapter and how they operate or whatever.

00:25:38.190 --> 00:25:41.578
Now, I mean you're not, you might know some sensitive information.

00:25:41.578 --> 00:25:42.461
You don't share that.

00:25:42.461 --> 00:25:55.352
But if you develop that trust level with your, with your chapter members, and a chapter member wants to go from club A to club B and they call you and say they call me and say Raleigh, what do you think about club B?

00:25:55.352 --> 00:25:58.557
And I and I don't, you know I don't, I don and say they call me and say Raleigh, what do you think about Club B?

00:25:58.557 --> 00:26:00.599
And I don't say, well, you don't want to work there.

00:26:00.599 --> 00:26:10.553
But I do tell them is that all right if you're going to go from Club A to Club B and Club B?

00:26:10.553 --> 00:26:14.018
Make sure you know all of these things A, b, c, d, e because that could lead them to find those things out.

00:26:14.018 --> 00:26:23.622
It would be unprofessional of me to share some of the behind-the-scenes things that I know, but I want to point them in the direction of make sure you know these things before you get ready.

00:26:23.622 --> 00:26:27.239
But the biggest mistake they make is making a move just for the money.

00:26:28.260 --> 00:26:33.099
Yeah, how do you help them balance that when money is important?

00:26:33.099 --> 00:26:45.209
When money is important, you know, like, let's just say that that big pay bump is, you know, hey, like how do you try to guide somebody when you know that's a big?

00:26:45.209 --> 00:26:46.438
You know, for what?

00:26:46.438 --> 00:26:59.096
You know I'm trying to think of like not devil's advocate, but you know, sometimes it's all like oh yeah, like that's great, but like what about that person, that club professional, who's you know, has maybe a new kit or something, whatever it is.

00:26:59.096 --> 00:27:06.240
But they're like, hey, that extra bump, that 5, 10, 15, 20 grand, however much, that's like game changing for them.

00:27:06.240 --> 00:27:07.542
How do you help them balance?

00:27:07.542 --> 00:27:07.763
Or?

00:27:09.132 --> 00:27:13.678
well and it goes back to what I said earlier too, danny is to to.

00:27:13.678 --> 00:27:19.030
If you just chase the money, then you just basically make a decision based on the money.

00:27:19.030 --> 00:27:35.625
But if you've been offered the position or you're like in presumably the second to last interview, you should have those questions ready and you can tell if you're paying attention.

00:27:35.625 --> 00:27:52.933
You can tell if the recipient of your question is shooting the moon, so to speak, or giving you an honest answer, and even an honest answer of saying, okay, we have a significant challenge in this area of the club and here's what we're doing to try and solve it.

00:27:52.933 --> 00:27:59.830
And that person might come back to you and ask you how would you solve it?

00:27:59.830 --> 00:28:09.262
But if you get into that sincere conversation where you feel confident that their answers are honest, that'll help you make the decision.

00:28:09.262 --> 00:28:17.061
And, by the way, even when people do that, even when people do that in a small number of cases it doesn't work.

00:28:17.061 --> 00:28:33.976
And the reason it doesn't work, when all is said and done, is there ended up being a personality conflict somewhere in the management organization and it might likely have precluded that individual that went there to do their job correctly, and it happens.

00:28:33.976 --> 00:28:40.045
I mean it happens, but that's as far as you can go to prepare them to make the right decision.

00:28:40.045 --> 00:28:47.938
You know, and the old sayings, like you know, the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence or all that glitters is gold.

00:28:47.938 --> 00:29:01.123
You just have to throw those things out for them to think about it, because in all likelihood they probably haven't given it much thought, because they already have stars in their eyes about this number.

00:29:01.123 --> 00:29:14.404
I mean, it's other things you have to do and there's a there's a it's kind of a time worn cliche or saying in today's business world is work life balance?

00:29:14.404 --> 00:29:19.333
I'm not so sure I like the word balance as opposed to work-life synergy.

00:29:19.894 --> 00:29:29.179
Now, if you're in the part of the world like we are in Minnesota, there's a significant bell curve from a seasonality standpoint.

00:29:29.680 --> 00:29:43.875
So from, I'll say, from May 1st to the end of October, but especially May, june and July, or June, july and August, you know it's, you know everything's on deck, because that's the peak of the season In that part of the country.

00:29:43.875 --> 00:29:52.902
You have more time in the off seasons or the shoulder seasons to have a little more personal time, whether it's family time or whatever the case may be.

00:29:52.902 --> 00:30:26.961
So you have to try and figure out or understand that when you're interviewing for that position, in other words, what the expectations are and what's happened in our business in the last four or five years, is that if a club, if a club, five, six years ago had two food and beverage managers, today they have three or four, because that young generation coming up, it's not a soft work ethic that they have, but their mindset and their expectation is, yeah, maybe 50 hours a week.

00:30:26.961 --> 00:30:32.718
You know, a number of years ago it was 60 or 70 or you know, until you fainted, went home, rested and came back.

00:30:32.718 --> 00:30:38.981
But it's a generational understanding that has to be there.

00:30:39.823 --> 00:30:51.375
Yeah, for me, genuinely it seems like love, just helping others, helping others move forward.

00:30:51.375 --> 00:30:53.938
Where does that come from?

00:30:53.938 --> 00:30:54.644
Like was that?

00:30:54.644 --> 00:30:55.279
Were you always that way?

00:30:55.279 --> 00:30:55.462
Where does does that come from?

00:30:55.462 --> 00:30:55.564
Like is that?

00:30:55.564 --> 00:30:56.816
Was that, were you always that way?

00:30:56.816 --> 00:30:57.103
Was like where?

00:30:57.103 --> 00:30:59.845
Where does all that come from?

00:31:00.726 --> 00:31:10.673
Well, to a large degree it's always been that way because my mom and dad instilled it in me and I would suggest when I was a lot younger I wasn't listening real clearly.

00:31:10.673 --> 00:31:21.000
But my, my dad was a chamber of Commerce executive for 40 or 50 years and so you know obviously a member-oriented business, so to speak.

00:31:21.000 --> 00:31:31.442
But I watched a lot from the sidelines growing up and how my dad you know how my dad interacted and carried himself in the Chamber of Commerce business.

00:31:32.490 --> 00:31:33.133
Because it's.

00:31:33.575 --> 00:31:37.971
I mean you're that visible business, because it's.

00:31:37.971 --> 00:31:38.952
I mean you're that visible, it's, it's, it's, it's.

00:31:38.952 --> 00:31:42.580
The visibility is on a, on a, on a, on a broader scope than being the GM as an example of a club.

00:31:42.580 --> 00:31:50.333
But I think I just, just, you know, just watching my dad and paying attention and, like I said when I was younger, I'd say wow, what's that?

00:31:50.333 --> 00:32:23.616
But you know, it all comes back and my mom was well, she was the best mom in the world, but as far as I was concerned, obviously, but I had a close relationship with my mother, but just watching my dad, and then, of course, you know, being alongside him or with him in my much younger days at a chamber function or something of that nature you just, if you're paying attention, you know, if you're wide awake and paying attention, you see things, whether you can define them or not, that say, I think that looks like the right thing to do.

00:32:23.616 --> 00:32:35.633
You might not say it yourself that way, but just, you know, just from that standpoint, and I had three or four great mentors as I was growing up in the business.

00:32:35.633 --> 00:32:48.277
And you know, obviously I haven't been in the club business my whole adult life, but, having been in the retail business for a number of years before getting into the golf industry and the club business had some great mentors.

00:32:48.277 --> 00:32:55.078
They had incredible people skills but they didn't like wear it on their sleeve, if you understand what I'm saying.

00:32:55.078 --> 00:33:02.902
They were good mentors and they gave you good insights and good direction and I'm honored to play that role.

00:33:02.961 --> 00:33:21.148
If it's a role I play with the people that I engage with, whether they're students thinking about the hospitality industry or members of our chapter or CMA people across the United States One of the great things about being being a managing director of a chapter is you.

00:33:21.148 --> 00:33:52.781
You have a lot of good engagement with other chapters and other members and you've been to the CMA world conference so I mean that's the Mecca of, you know, of networking and education and professional development and if you go to as many of them as I have, you'd have to be deaf, dumb and blind not to meet great people and you know you just develop a connection that you're going to run into either at the next world conference or in some other circumstance in the business.

00:33:52.781 --> 00:34:08.277
And you know I mean really what's more fun than engaging with people that appreciate, you know, your friendship or fellowship Because, again, you never know when you might have to call them up and say, hey, so it's worth a lot.

00:34:08.297 --> 00:34:22.746
Yeah, yeah, If you can give, if you can give every maybe CMAA chapter, every CMA member a challenge to focus on for the rest of this year, what would it be?

00:34:25.514 --> 00:34:29.322
Well, I'll talk about what CMA gives them to make sure they understand it.

00:34:29.322 --> 00:34:37.139
And it's education, professional development and networking, and those are not vertical priorities, they're horizontal.

00:34:37.139 --> 00:34:59.300
So the thought that I would share with them is that understand the value that you can capture from all three of those, of all three of those tenants of what CMEA is all about, and take the time, go to the meetings, go to go to the world conference or go to your local chapter meetings.

00:34:59.300 --> 00:35:10.653
Engage with, engage with other people, because it's amazing how much you can learn by just hanging out with people that are in this, in the same industry or vocation that you are.

00:35:11.755 --> 00:35:14.559
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:35:14.559 --> 00:35:26.085
I think a lot it's taking that extra step, putting in that little bit of extra work, putting yourself out there trying to connect with people who you don't know, step outside your circle a little bit.

00:35:26.728 --> 00:35:35.490
Well, you have to, and the easy part about it is, as an example, at CMA, at the World Conference, you have this very large name tag hanging right in front of your body.

00:35:35.490 --> 00:35:43.989
And even if you run into somebody that you might have met before, all you got to do is look up and see their name tag and you can address them by first name.

00:35:43.989 --> 00:35:47.635
But again, you, you, you get a chance to build those relationships.

00:35:57.349 --> 00:36:01.577
And you gave me the, you gave me my favorite one runs with scissors which is not too far from the truth.

00:36:03.222 --> 00:36:04.565
Well, I mean, how easy is that?

00:36:04.565 --> 00:36:06.992
And I'm not so sure I'd say putting yourself out there.

00:36:06.992 --> 00:36:26.568
But when you're in those crowds or the chapter meetings or World Conference or whatever the opportunity to say hi to somebody by their first name and you're not being not genuine by doing it, is saying hi, denny, how are you People like that?

00:36:27.891 --> 00:36:29.213
People love their name.

00:36:30.159 --> 00:36:32.123
Well, that's exactly right.

00:36:32.123 --> 00:36:51.217
But there's been an interesting evolution over a number of years in the club industry, and what I always tell people that are either just getting into it or going from club to club, one of the first things well, what you have to do is you have to figure out how to adapt to that club's culture.

00:36:51.217 --> 00:36:54.907
If you're a new GM going in, you don't get to set the culture.

00:36:54.907 --> 00:36:57.280
It's been there to learn how to adapt to it.

00:36:57.280 --> 00:37:02.445
But one of the first things you want to a couple, two things you want to find out Do you want me to wear a tie or not?

00:37:02.445 --> 00:37:07.451
And second of all, should I address the members by first name or by Mr or Mrs or Ms?

00:37:07.451 --> 00:37:23.355
Because that really helps you get off to a good start of adapting to the culture and just doing what is expected from a culture standpoint.

00:37:23.355 --> 00:37:24.376
Pretty important stuff.

00:37:25.197 --> 00:37:25.396
Yeah.

00:37:25.396 --> 00:37:32.090
Is there a small behavior or like a habit, you think that can completely change someone's career?

00:37:33.893 --> 00:37:35.255
Yeah, a lot of the things.

00:37:35.255 --> 00:37:43.634
Yeah, if they're not willing to engage or a little afraid of it or intimidated by engaging, they have to do it.

00:37:43.634 --> 00:37:45.746
They absolutely have to do it.

00:37:45.746 --> 00:37:58.876
And a good way to witness the right kind of engagement if it's a club coworker and engaging with members hang out and watch what other people do that do it.

00:37:58.876 --> 00:38:00.804
It's not that difficult.

00:38:00.804 --> 00:38:07.382
You know they're not going to ask you for your social security number, so you know you don't have to be guarded.

00:38:07.985 --> 00:38:37.626
But what I've seen is when and I had the good fortune of having some very talented people on my staff over the years that weren't quite sure how to engage with members because they hadn't come from the club business and I would always point out to them because you could tell, just kind of keeping an eye on them, you know when they get started in whatever they're doing, you can tell if they have, you know, a fluid feeling for engaging or not, and so you can.

00:38:37.626 --> 00:38:42.501
You know you can, just in passing in the break room or whatever you can say.

00:38:42.501 --> 00:38:53.992
You know you, if you, if you want to feel more comfortable engaging with members, keep an eye on Bob and see how he does it, because it's it, it, it's not that difficult.

00:38:53.992 --> 00:39:02.804
But I, you know, I understand how young people getting in the industry can be intimidated or feel a little intimidated, but that can also go back.

00:39:02.804 --> 00:39:12.942
And maybe this may sound self-serving but that can go back to when Kathy and I teach that class at UW-Stout in the beginning of the semester, so they see that we're genuine and approachable.

00:39:13.503 --> 00:39:18.594
From that standpoint it's well, you know, I've done it for many years.

00:39:18.594 --> 00:39:20.865
But you need to help.

00:39:20.865 --> 00:39:35.802
You need to help people that need help in that area, but you also need to help people that are too verbose or overbearing, you know, and you have to find the right way to, to comfort, comfort, comfortably tell them hey, turn that down a little bit.

00:39:35.802 --> 00:39:36.423
You know what I mean.

00:39:36.423 --> 00:39:37.945
And of course you don't.

00:39:37.945 --> 00:39:39.507
You don't do it that way, yeah.

00:39:40.248 --> 00:39:40.909
Give them a little.

00:39:40.929 --> 00:39:42.230
Yeah what I mean and of course you don't.

00:39:42.230 --> 00:39:42.831
You don't do it that way.

00:39:42.831 --> 00:39:49.425
Yeah, give them a little, yeah, but I mean you, you know, you, um, I wouldn't say you're on guard, but it's pay attention to what's going on around you.

00:39:49.425 --> 00:39:58.527
It's, it's uh, it's very important, it's very important to uh to do that, because that'll help you grow yeah, was.

00:40:00.769 --> 00:40:05.780
Was there anything you wanted to talk about or any questions you wanted me to ask you?

00:40:06.722 --> 00:40:08.043
No, but I want to tell you something.

00:40:08.043 --> 00:40:16.083
I had a nice meet and greet with a new member of the chapter.

00:40:16.083 --> 00:40:21.440
He's previously been in one of the clubs in our chapter and so we were chatting this morning.

00:40:21.440 --> 00:40:24.791
I just want to go out and say hi and welcome back to the neighborhood and everything.

00:40:24.791 --> 00:40:26.365
And he said well, what's your day like?

00:40:26.365 --> 00:40:30.219
And I said well, I'm going to chat with Danny Corby this afternoon.

00:40:30.219 --> 00:40:32.789
He said isn't that the guy with all the spiked hair?

00:40:32.789 --> 00:40:40.989
And I said, if I'm not mistaken, the last couple of years he's toned it down a little bit.

00:40:45.135 --> 00:40:45.675
I mean the hair.

00:40:45.675 --> 00:40:46.983
I'm only talking about the hair.

00:40:47.766 --> 00:40:50.079
Well, I mean, come on Now you talk about engaging with people.

00:40:50.079 --> 00:41:38.393
When you were the emcee of our Midwest Regional Education Forum, you know between, first of all, so Kathy and I didn't have to keep running back and forth to the microphone, but your friendly demeanor, your comedic attitude and not a bad magician, by the way, either but you made people feel comfortable all the time and that's why when Kathy first reached out to you and then you and I and Kathy had a chance to chat I don't know if you're a household word, but you're pretty well known in our industry but what you created as the emcee, that also that created a culture at that three-day meeting of everybody's relaxed and this is friendly and everybody's welcome Well done.

00:41:39.943 --> 00:41:40.947
Thank you so much for that.

00:41:40.947 --> 00:41:42.865
Thanks for doing that on the record as well.

00:41:43.188 --> 00:41:43.407
Yes.

00:41:45.463 --> 00:41:49.807
So I didn't know if there was anything you wanted to talk about or anything you're excited about.

00:41:51.603 --> 00:42:14.126
Well, what I'm excited about just is how our industry has evolved and I've been in the industry for a little over 20 years but how it's evolved not only well, first of all, position-wise, cmea changed their name from Club Managers Association to Club Management Association in 2018.

00:42:14.126 --> 00:42:31.052
And the message was or the message got through to the leadership at CMA on a national basis that this isn't just for general managers In the mid-management segment where are the future leaders in our industry going to come from?

00:42:31.052 --> 00:42:38.684
But from middle managers, and I've seen that evolve and our membership growth in our chapter.

00:42:38.684 --> 00:42:47.996
As far as middle managers are concerned, I would tell you that 10, 15 years ago, the vast majority of our members were general managers.

00:42:49.521 --> 00:43:00.666
Right now, just a tinge over 50% of our chapter membership are middle managers of all levels, and you have to know how to complement that.

00:43:00.666 --> 00:43:10.981
In the past, we've always done a general manager's roundtable, but we didn't call it general managers, we just call it a roundtable.

00:43:10.981 --> 00:43:20.103
So a lot of GMs would come and some middle managers would come, but they were intimidated to talk in a room full with GMs.

00:43:20.103 --> 00:43:28.791
So we're having our and we may be a little late to the party we're having our first ever mid-manager roundtable on July 10th.

00:43:29.873 --> 00:43:30.672
Ooh, very fun.

00:43:30.672 --> 00:43:33.135
Is it in person?

00:43:33.135 --> 00:43:34.856
Oh yeah, oh, absolutely in person.

00:43:34.856 --> 00:43:42.483
Oh, it'd be interesting if you blindfolded all the people, so then people wouldn't know at first like who is talking.

00:43:42.483 --> 00:43:46.255
You know if they're like a little bit hesitant, uh, yeah, and we have.

00:43:46.396 --> 00:43:56.425
We have the edict that's been sent out not only by myself but our chapter president, bridget eckert, who's the assistant gm at the town and country club, is that no gms are allowed.

00:43:56.425 --> 00:44:06.416
We're doing it at Bridget's club and I made sure that her general manager, carl Granberg, knows that no, he cannot come in the room.

00:44:07.699 --> 00:44:08.322
That is cool.

00:44:10.762 --> 00:44:28.824
You know, if you have a good peer group together in a roundtable meeting, you probably only have to start the conversation with one particular thing or item and it'll take off to get them engaged and the middle managers will feel more comfortable being in a room full of their peers.

00:44:28.824 --> 00:44:30.268
So that's important.

00:44:30.268 --> 00:44:37.891
And the gender balance in our business the gender balance has become more balanced and that's pretty important.

00:44:37.891 --> 00:44:40.987
We have our gender balance in our chapter.

00:44:40.987 --> 00:44:46.291
Right now is about 60-40 male to female, but that's grown.

00:44:46.291 --> 00:44:48.085
I mean, that's come a long way.

00:44:48.085 --> 00:44:56.079
And the gender part of our business is very important.

00:44:56.280 --> 00:45:06.590
We have several dozen, or a little more than two dozen very talented females that are in leadership roles at the clubs in our chapter.

00:45:06.590 --> 00:45:15.539
In fact, it was amazing, there's a publication in our area called the Minneapolis St Paul Business Journal, somehow or another.

00:45:15.539 --> 00:45:37.251
The reporter that covers clubs wanted to do an article on women in, you know, women in club leadership, but also, just, you know, women in our business, and he called me and said he was going to do it and I said, wow, it's about time.

00:45:37.251 --> 00:45:42.724
But what he ended up doing is he wrote a terrific article and, uh, name names.

00:45:42.724 --> 00:45:43.905
Because I gave names to him.

00:45:43.905 --> 00:45:44.547
I mean we have.

00:45:44.547 --> 00:45:53.771
We have um a dozen ladies in our chapter that are general managers like yeah and uh and, and so they're.

00:45:53.811 --> 00:45:55.661
they're very talented, and you know what?

00:45:55.661 --> 00:45:58.605
Again, it doesn't matter, the gender irrelevant.

00:45:58.605 --> 00:46:04.773