Sept. 1, 2025
458: The HOA Side of Club Management w/ Joe Smith
Ever wondered what it’s like to run a private club that functions more like a municipality than a clubhouse?
In this episode, GM Joe Smith takes us deep into the world of Florida HOAs where leadership isn’t just about member experience… it’s about navigating state law, statutes, and real legal accountability.
You’ll hear how HOA-run clubs operate under public scrutiny, manage board meetings where anyone can speak, respond to official record requests, and even enforce rules about house colors and driveway parking. Joe breaks down the legal landscape, the operational headaches, and the leadership strategies it takes to succeed in this unique model.
If you’ve ever stepped into an HOA-run club, thought about taking a GM role in one, or just want to know what it’s like to run a club where members have rights protected by law this episode is essential listening.
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00:00 - Introduction to Club HOAs
08:03 - HOA Laws and Florida Statutes
13:10 - Managing Board Requirements
20:09 - Enforcing Rules and Regulations
31:22 - Handling Complaints and Records
38:41 - Running a Club Like a Small Town
45:44 - Advice for Club Managers
WEBVTT
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Hey everybody, welcome to the Private Club Radio Show where we give you the scoop on all things private golf and country clubs, from mastering, leadership and management, food and beverage excellence, member engagement secrets, board governance and everything in between, all while keeping it fun and light.
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Whether you're a club veteran just getting your feet wet or somewhere in the middle, you are in the right place.
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I'm your host, denny Corby.
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Welcome to the show In this episode bringing back on one of my good friends, good friends of the show, good friends of the industry and all around great human, joe Smith.
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Josiah Smith, gm of Countryside Golf and Country Club, and we were chatting a few weeks ago about Management in Motion.
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He's one of my speakers and coming up.
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If you haven't heard about it, management in Motion it is my leadership event for club professionals at the Monticello Motor Club.
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It's going to be an absolute blast a day of ripping up BMWs, M2s, 3s and 4s and then also hearing real, relevant education from club professionals on how what we're doing at the day and on the day relates back to club leadership and management.
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It's going to be a blast.
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If you want to learn more privateclubradiocom, slash management in motion.
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Or if you just go to privateclubradiocom.
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Go up to the top bar.
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You'll see it right there.
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Details for management in motion.
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Anyway, I was talking with Joe and he was telling me about some of the HOA things and just things that he is dealing with and what they have coming up.
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And I found it fascinating, cause something that I don't hear too many people talk about because a lot of clubs don't have HOAs but I think it's the magic in me, cause I I love learning about a lot and I like just learning and just being able to understand how things work and why things work, and I think it's the magic is.
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You know, magic is about a problem that you can't solve.
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That's all magic really is.
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So when we were just chatting I was like, hey, would you come on and do an episode and just kind of giving a peek behind the curtain on what goes into not just managing a club but a club that has an HOA attached to it?
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Now, this is specifically Florida HOAs.
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I realize every state and areas can be different, but we talk about the different rules and regulations and statutes and things that he has to follow and the homeowners have to follow.
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He's also a CAM Community Association Manager and he also runs 34 sub-HOAs within his community, because at this point you're not just running a private club, you're basically running a small city.
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We dive into the Florida statutes that govern his club Record-keeping rules, public board meetings, strict regulations on almost everything from the color of your house to the maintenance, to the landscaping and so much more.
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My favorite part is we talk about what happens when anonymous complaints come in.
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We dive into how to handle board politics, committee dynamics and the fine line between enforcing rules and managing relationships in a fairly legally structured community.
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And I think what makes this episode special and valuable isn't the technicalities, it's how Joe leads through it all and his approach on how to stay calm, informed, focused and organized and building trust throughout all of this.
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So if you've ever been a little bit curious on to what goes into running a club with an hoa and kind of getting a peek behind the curtain here, this episode is for you.
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It is so good I I just love learning, so it's just a cool experience for me to just to dive into and learn a little bit more about the club space from one of our own and one of our favorites Real quick before we get to the episode.
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Big thanks to some of our show partners, appreciate all of you and if you are looking for any of the products or services that our show partners have to offer, please reach out and let them know.
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Hey, you appreciate their support here.
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On Private Club Radio, and also one more shameless plug my 2025 is almost basically sold out.
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I have a couple couple of dates left very, very few, but, more importantly, I am now booking well into 2026.
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So if you or your club is looking to have one of the most fun member events nights possible, reach out.
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We have the Denny Corby experience.
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There's excitement, there's mystery.
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Also there's magic, mind reading and comedy.
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I am an absolute crowd work expert.
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Your members are going to have so much fun.
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So if you want to learn more or contact about a 2026 date, head on over to DannyCorbycom.
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Enough about that Private Club Radio listeners.
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Let's welcome to the show.
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Joe Smith, I'm excited for this one.
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I'm excited for all my episodes, but I like I like learning about weird stuff, like I just like I think it's like the magic in me too a little bit, like I just enjoy knowing a little bit about a lot of things.
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And when we were chatting, just you know, and I just think I realized the weird, like I realized HOAs are a unique beast, but how unique they are and the details, and I'm sure every state is different and we're going to be talking about Florida here but just wild HOA.
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Are they rules, laws, regulations?
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Is it a mixture of all of them?
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Is it a mixture of all three?
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Are there HOA laws that you have to follow?
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Is it a law?
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What's the?
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proper phrase Like what's the yeah?
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So it's, it's Florida statute.
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There's there's two chapters in Florida statute that govern HOAs.
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There's chapter 720, which is homeowners associations, and there's chapter 718, which is condo associations.
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So my club, for example this is how I explain it to new board members Think of it like we're a small town and your dues are your taxes and the board is the like county commissioners and I'm the city manager.
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So in my situation, for example, like the clubhouse, golf course, all the amenities are assets of the master association and then I have 34 individual sub associations that are a mix of single family homes and condos.
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Some communities are all condos, so they have a uh, you know clubhouse which is a in a, an asset of the condo association, of the condo association.
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But that's yeah, it's a whole nother layer of law and it is law.
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Florida's the most restrictive, I would say, and I think it was prior to like 1995, there really was no HOA law.
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So here locally they refer to it as the Sunshine Law and it governs all HOAs throughout the state and the purpose of it was to create some protection for homeowners and for the HOA and the board of directors really, because in the HOA you have no choice.
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You buy in, you're required to pay dues, you're required to pay your HOA fees and there's no choice.
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So, yeah, it's pretty restrictive and I think when we were talking, I think I was telling you some of the I don't remember how it came up, but it was something about-.
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I do.
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I think I was telling you some of the.
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I don't remember how it came up, but it was something about like, yeah, I don't want to go into detail, but just like the importance of, you know, like my, my board members, you know staying current with their, with their club fees, like that's not a club rule, that's a floor of statute, you know.
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So a director on a master HOA board needs to be current with their association fees to remain an active director and that's per floor law.
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So we're subject, our types of clubs are subject to a whole other level of governing in law versus the, the typical country club, and there's a whole realm of other oddities that come with that.
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and I can go down the rabbit hole if you'd like me to yeah, no, yeah, yeah, and and and just to, just to go back, uh, to that first part, uh, if a member is delinquent, how like, how like, what's that grace period?
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So it's a grace period like, is it like you know, you know if it's due, you know 30 days and it's like the first day after, like, you're out.
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Is it like 60 days, 90 days, like how, what's, what's the what's?
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the statute law say per statute they abandon their position at 90 days past due and there's a whole collection process we have to follow.
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That's also governed by law.
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Um, so there's, you know, we have to send certain notices.
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And the other thing that's interesting is hoa clubs like mine.
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We have lien rights so again we can lean, we put we will place a lien on their home when they fall past due.
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Yeah yeah, the collection process is much more involved and, again, governed by Florida law.
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There's weird things, like when I have new board members come to join the board.
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I specifically discuss the differences with you know Boardroom Magazine Notable, which was private club advisor.
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Any best practices or any you know industry material that is applicable I share with my board members and a lot of times they'll come to me and they'll say well, look at, you know this is a best practice and you know we should do this.
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We should implement this with our how we recruit for board members or have a selection committee or and I have to remind them that a lot of the stuff that comes across in these publications isn't applicable to us or it only is at a certain level.
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I cannot have private board meetings unless the meeting is to discuss pending litigation or a personnel issue.
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Otherwise, all of our board meetings are open, open forum board meetings, and I have to allow anyone who's in attendance three minutes, up to three minutes, to discuss any item on the agenda.
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So so if you have so.
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If so, if all them.
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If a bunch of people are mad about something or just want to make their voice known and a hundred of them show up, they all have the right to talk for three minutes, and you have to sit there.
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Yep this is like an episode of Parks and Rec.
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Yeah, I have to publicize my board meetings, need a 48-hour notice by law.
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So every board you know we hold board meetings on Thursdays I have to publish it, publish the agenda by Tuesday and last summer there was a new statute that passed where I need to not just publish the agenda but any document that the board receives as part of the meeting I need to make available to the community.
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I cannot restrict anyone from running for the board unless there's two items they're either a convicted felon or they're not current on their HOA dues.
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Otherwise, a lot of clubs will have selection committees or they will curate new board members.
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I cannot.
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I could certainly have a group of members recommending making recommendations on who they would like to see voted into the board, but I cannot restrict anyone from running for the board.
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Under law there's a whole slew of and if you really we just did a document rewrite last year which is subject to vote there's specific requirements and statute that I need to have available to members when we're proposing new documents and then, once the documents are approved and voted in, they have to be filed with not only the county that our business operates in but the state of Florida and their public record.
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Yeah, Wasn't there just something I I was doing like some research for this.
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Wasn't there just uh like a uh um statue, whatever you know, whatever you want to call it law um, where you can't like be real petty with like fines?
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Now there's like a like a longer grace period or something with like garbage cans, like holiday lights, like stuff like that.
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Yeah.
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So the funny thing is is that some of those laws changed for condo associations but not HOA.
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So, for example, I'll use my community as an example so we for years restricted you could not park a commercial vehicle or pickup truck outside of your home overnight for more than six hours.
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Okay, so if you owned a pickup truck and it could have been a $85,000 Lincoln Navigator pickup truck or whatever You're dating- yourself.
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Yeah, I know they haven't made those in about 15 years bud.
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I don't drive pickup trucks either, but you couldn't park them.
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You had to park it in your garage.
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Yeah, so Florida statute changed and they say that homeowners associations can no longer restrict that.
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However, condo associations can.
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So I'm the licensed association manager for the club which is the subject to homeowners associations.
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So I have members in their condo units who will come to me and say the law changed and why are we still allowing people to park pickup trucks in our condos?
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And I have to explain that's a local rule.
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It didn't change under Chapter 718.
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It didn't change under Chapter 718.
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Single-family homes, which are accountable to me.
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It did change for them.
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So the master association can no longer restrict that, but locally in your condo.
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If it's still in your bylaws, you should be restricting it.
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You can change it.
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You don't have to.
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But the law just says that an HOA can no longer say that you cannot park your pickup truck outside, or first responder vehicles if you're a police officer, or commercial vehicles.
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Which is basically telling people don't have cluttered garages, yeah, so you can park your vehicle in there.
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Yeah, yeah, it's got to be difficult to be both GM.
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You know HOA leader, how do you keep that friendly host that middle of the ground?
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Because it's got to be difficult when they're coming to the club, but then also there's stuff going on with the.
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It's got to be a unique position to be in.
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Yeah, it's tough at times and in that sense having Florida's statue as difficult as that makes it, it also gives those of us in my position an opportunity to say listen, it's not my rule, it's not the club's rule, it's law.
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So we refer to that oftentimes.
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A lot of clubs now mine in particular doesn't operate this way, but some clubs have an on-site CAM Community Association Manager which is a license that you have to hold through the state of Florida as a department head.
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So you know, I do do a role, I'm the general manager and I also hold the CAM license for the master association.
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But I could very well hire a department head to run the HOA and you know, at some point we may end up doing that and it's just, you just operate it as another department.
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Where it really becomes a challenge is back to committee discussion, the topic of committees.
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We have committees like every other club, but we also have an architectural control committee, which is the only committee that has some authority in the eyes of the statute, the state of Florida and our documents, and that's a committee of club members, homeowners, who enforce all of our exterior architectural requirements that you would find in an HOA.
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So colors of your home, replacing your roof, I want to put a new pool cage on so that all flows through the club as well.
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There's a request process, there's an approval process and that's a committee that acts on a monthly basis, very active in the club.
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That you don't often see in a lot of clubs, unless you're you're an hoa club yeah, what's what was one of the?
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most obscured, what was one of the most obscure hoa violations or like situations you've had to deal with that's technically within the rules but felt ridiculous to enforce.
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Oh gosh, I mean up until last summer the whole truck rule I always thought was kind of ridiculous, you know to me again.
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You know that was such a.
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You know the rule in our documents, my community is 40 years old, you know so, back in the 90s, 80s and 90s, you know the rule in our documents, my community is 40 years old, you know so, back in the nineties, eighties and nineties, you know, pickup trucks were pickup trucks.
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And now, um, you know you can buy a truck.
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That's, you know, very, very nice, right, so I'm like what's?
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And then where do you draw the line?
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You know, um, I've got one owner who has a a very nice, very well restored classic El Camino.
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Um, and that's always a point of contention with other homeowners Like, uh, is that a truck or a car?
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You know, is that a truck or a car?
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You know, so I always thought that was like ridiculous, trying to, you know, enforce that and tell someone they've got to pull.
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You know they can't park their.
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You know, um, eddie bauer edition, whatever inside that.
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You know, to me I'm just like, really, um, and then some of the paint colors.
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You know that's an issue, it's always a challenge where, you know, in our community we have required paint colors that you can paint the outside of your home.
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And if you're going to do that work, you need to get your neighbors to sign off on it before you make the request for approval through the architectural committee.
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You make the the request for approval through the architectural committee.
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Um, and then you, you know, you end up with someone who just drives by the house, who doesn't like the color paint, and I'm like what do you want me to say?
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yeah like one, it's approved and two, the neighbors are okay with it.
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So don't look at it when you drive by, it's you know face the other way, take face the other way, go around the other side of the loop yeah have you ever had all?
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kinds of crazy stuff.
00:22:03.276 --> 00:22:08.134
All kinds of crazy stuff ever, ever any like weird vehicles, like monster trucks or people.
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I'm sure you have people who like push the envelope, who like, who just like to push buttons, like have you ever had like I don't like monster trucks or just like limos parked like just weird, weird stuff never had any monster trucks.
00:22:21.147 --> 00:22:24.844
Um, you know, I've had some atvs in past communities.
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Like you know, they'll keep them in their garage and then they'll drive them through the community like not not atvs, but like the uh, they look like a car.
00:22:34.545 --> 00:22:37.636
Um, they have like doors on them.
00:22:38.199 --> 00:22:41.125
Yeah, yeah, uh, are you?
00:22:41.125 --> 00:22:43.010
Uh, I think I know what you mean.
00:22:43.010 --> 00:22:48.559
It's like there's slingshots like the trikey things yeah or otherwise.
00:22:48.800 --> 00:22:54.788
Um, it's like an off-road vehicle, but it's got four seats in it.
00:22:54.788 --> 00:22:56.250
You know what I'm talking about.
00:22:56.454 --> 00:22:59.664
Yep, yep, yep, I can see them, yep, yep.
00:23:01.136 --> 00:23:27.981
It's crazy, One of the communities I managed years ago in the documents we also had landscape authority, meaning we determined what you could and couldn't plant in front of your house, and I had one owner in particular who just didn't agree with that and, you know, made a point to turn the front of his house into a jungle.
00:23:31.431 --> 00:23:31.932
Just out of spite.
00:23:33.057 --> 00:23:35.221
Just out of spite, yeah, out of spite.
00:23:35.221 --> 00:23:55.589
And one of the authorities that statute gives you is if someone doesn't fix their house, per whatever the requirements are whether it's overgrown landscape or their front lawn's not mowed or whatnot we can't or say their roof needs to be pressure washed.
00:23:55.589 --> 00:24:04.108
The HOA can hire someone to just do the work and then bill them the cost.
00:24:04.108 --> 00:24:07.724
I mean, within a certain period of time you have to provide notice.
00:24:07.724 --> 00:24:21.763
We can fine you up to I believe the maximum is $100 a day, capped at $1,000 for every day you don't rectify an issue with the outside of your home.
00:24:21.763 --> 00:24:23.380
It's crazy.
00:24:24.255 --> 00:24:24.757
How bad is.
00:24:24.757 --> 00:24:32.105
Have you had to deal with a situation like that, or do you normally get it rectified and handled before?
00:24:32.164 --> 00:24:33.538
it gets to that level here.
00:24:33.538 --> 00:24:34.907
I've never had to find anyone.
00:24:34.907 --> 00:24:35.855
I've never had to find anyone.
00:24:35.855 --> 00:24:41.423
I've never had to find anyone and you know a lot of it goes back to education.
00:24:41.423 --> 00:24:57.881
Yeah, we had some challenges during COVID where you know, people were buying from the north down here in Florida sight unseen and didn't really have the experience or the knowledge of what an HOA is.
00:24:57.881 --> 00:25:06.959
So there was some of that that we just had to educate new owners on how the club and an HOA operates.
00:25:08.434 --> 00:25:09.861
And then it's different state to state.
00:25:09.861 --> 00:25:18.088
I know some states really don't have, they don't have statute like Florida does.
00:25:18.088 --> 00:25:27.869
Florida is the most restrictive I shouldn't say restrictive, but most involved in with having state statutes.
00:25:27.869 --> 00:25:34.067
Other states refer to them as POA property owners associations.
00:25:34.067 --> 00:25:35.259
So that's a common term.
00:25:35.259 --> 00:25:56.414
But I think from an industry standpoint we don't down here in Florida I would say probably half of the clubs throughout the state are HOAs and bundled the membership is bundled with the home and we don't really talk about it all that much from an industry standpoint.
00:25:56.414 --> 00:26:14.095
We don't talk about the other level of complexity we have as operators and what we can and can't do in clubs like HOA clubs because of the law, hoa clubs because of the law.
00:26:17.892 --> 00:26:28.929
Yeah, what's harder to manage the rules and things itself or the personalities of the people trying to like not fight the rule but, like you know, who don't agree with it?
00:26:30.497 --> 00:26:31.441
Well, it goes hand in hand.
00:26:31.441 --> 00:26:39.627
I mean typically the personalities of the ones who don't want to follow the rules or want to push the issue, are the difficult personalities.
00:26:39.627 --> 00:26:41.009
You know what I mean?
00:26:41.009 --> 00:27:03.511
Yeah, or an understanding personality if they question the rule or the statue and you explain it, they're like okay, I get it Right, I get it, it's just the way it is, I get it.
00:27:03.511 --> 00:27:10.265
The ones with the personality that just isn't as understandable.
00:27:10.265 --> 00:27:13.849
They're going to be difficult and it sucks.
00:27:13.849 --> 00:27:22.788
You know it's difficult to manage sometimes yeah, how do you handle anonymous complaints?
00:27:26.419 --> 00:27:49.827
um, I like to file them in my filing cabinet, honestly anonymous, and this has nothing to do with HOA or not HOA, but I'm like, if you're going to complain, put your name on it so we can respond.
00:27:49.827 --> 00:27:53.940
You know, like that's a.
00:27:53.940 --> 00:27:58.169
You know, give us the opportunity to respond.
00:27:58.169 --> 00:28:10.204
When I started here, we still had comment cards, the handwritten comment cards, and we've since gone away with them and I explained to our board at the time.
00:28:10.204 --> 00:28:19.287
I was like you know so many of those comment cards you can't, they're not legible, you can't read it, or there's no name.
00:28:19.287 --> 00:28:23.138
You read one that says the burger sucked no name.
00:28:23.138 --> 00:28:29.377
And it's probably the same person who's sitting at the bar saying, well, I fill out a comment card never heard from anyone.
00:28:29.377 --> 00:28:33.463
Well, you know.
00:28:33.505 --> 00:28:40.484
I mean, if you're going to make a complaint, regardless of what it is, and you want to remain anonymous, that's fine.
00:28:40.484 --> 00:28:41.779
Just come in and sit with us.
00:28:41.779 --> 00:28:46.846
Like, listen, I just want to let you know I've got an issue with this or I saw this.
00:28:46.846 --> 00:28:49.501
I don't want to make a big deal, but you need to know about it.
00:28:49.501 --> 00:28:58.695
Whatever, like, as a manager, give us the opportunity to resolve or respond to the issue, because we want to.
00:28:58.695 --> 00:29:00.538
I genuinely want to.
00:29:00.538 --> 00:29:08.048
The other interesting item we deal with is records requests.
00:29:08.048 --> 00:29:22.086
So, per Florida statute, because it's a mandatory membership, every document, so it's all public information for our owners.
00:29:22.988 --> 00:29:28.125
Okay, but not public to outside the HOA, or can anybody see it?
00:29:28.626 --> 00:29:30.997
No, no, no, it's just within the HOA.
00:29:30.997 --> 00:29:45.759
So anyone wants a copy of any document, any contract that was signed by the HOA employment contracts I had last year or a year before.
00:29:45.759 --> 00:29:49.008
I had a member who wanted a copy of my employment contract.
00:29:49.008 --> 00:29:51.743
They fill out a request records request.
00:29:51.743 --> 00:29:55.065
By law, we have to provide it back to them within 10 days.
00:29:58.095 --> 00:29:58.455
Anything.
00:29:58.635 --> 00:30:12.159
Yeah, any contract that is in excess of 10% of the overall association operating budget we need to provide.
00:30:12.159 --> 00:30:16.669
We need to gather and provide three or multiple proposals.
00:30:16.669 --> 00:30:24.348
So if we're going to sign a contract for I don't know something crazy like, well, here's a good one.
00:30:24.348 --> 00:30:35.769
We manage and bill cable TV and internet for all 1,133 homes.
00:30:36.990 --> 00:30:37.351
Really.
00:30:37.976 --> 00:30:40.664
And that's common down here in HOAs.
00:30:40.664 --> 00:30:50.676
So we have one contract with my signature on it and it's a $10 million-plus contract for it's a 10-year deal.
00:30:50.676 --> 00:31:11.856
You know, $10 million plus contract for it's a 10-year deal and through the Master Association you are billed for your cable TV and your internet service in your home and something like that.
00:31:11.856 --> 00:31:15.948
We need to show that we did our research and we got multiple proposals for a service like that and that's stipulated in Florida statute.
00:31:18.453 --> 00:31:22.584
Wow, Now can people still get their own if they want, but you provide.
00:31:24.337 --> 00:31:26.223
They're paying anyways for ours.
00:31:26.223 --> 00:31:27.205
They have no choice.
00:31:27.205 --> 00:31:37.385
And if you want to go out and get direct TV, that's fine, but you're still getting billed for the cable TV and the internet that the master association provides.
00:31:38.146 --> 00:31:39.769
Yeah, yeah.
00:31:39.890 --> 00:31:42.842
Wow, it's like a small town.
00:31:42.842 --> 00:32:05.729
That's the best analogy that I can make for people is like the annual dues are like your taxes and you know the board is your commissioners and I'm the city manager ever had people just like request records, just to almost like waste time or like you know they have their own.
00:32:05.868 --> 00:32:06.069
You know.
00:32:06.069 --> 00:32:08.480
You know trying to grind a personal act.
00:32:08.480 --> 00:32:20.229
You know they're just like out there's, like I'm just gonna do every little petty thing and you have to comply yes wow yes, yeah so.
00:32:20.229 --> 00:32:23.236
So they can just as soon as they get a new thing, just go yeah, and you know what?
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