Oct. 27, 2025

466: Keeping an Eye on Certifications w/ Brian Watkins CMAA

So you want those letters after your name—CCM, CCE,
maybe even MCM—but you’re not sure where to start, how long it takes,
or if it’s even worth it?

This episode answers all your certification questions.

This week on The Private Club Radio Show, we sit down with
Brian Watkins, Director of Certification & Education at the
Club Management Association of America (CMAA).

If you’ve ever registered for a BMI, counted your CECs, or prepped for the CCM exam, you’ve already felt Brian’s impact.

In this episode, Brian gives us a behind-the-scenes look at:

*What it really takes to earn your Certified Club Manager (CCM)
*How to track and use your Continuing Education Credits (CECs)
*The step-by-step journey to Honor Society, Certified Chief Executive (CCE), and the elite Master Club Manager (MCM) designation
*What role BMI programs play in the process—and how to get the most out of them
*Why CMAA’s certification path is evolving to support the next generation of club professionals
*Common pitfalls, myths, and game-changing tips for every manager on the path to professional growth

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00:00 - Brian’s Nonlinear Career Start

03:54 - Discovering Associations And Certification Work

07:49 - Why Adult Education Hooked Brian

12:04 - Role At CMAA And Behind The BMIs

17:29 - The CCM Path And Timeline

22:49 - Exam Competencies And Passing Rules

27:09 - Beyond CCM: Honor Society, CCE, MCM

32:49 - Is Certification Worth It

37:29 - Myths, Misinformation, And Getting Clarity

41:39 - How Certification Changes Managers

46:39 - A Hungrier, More Diverse Talent Pipeline

51:19 - Chapters As Local Education Engines

WEBVTT

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And Brian's journey is nothing but typical.

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In this episode, we learn a little bit more about Brian and his background, what got him to hear with us at the CMFO, but we dive into what's going on.

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We dive into not just what are and what is CCMs and CECs and all of those, but also what it really takes to earn your CCM and what that really means.

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Now you didn't start off in clubs or hospitality.

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You were you were a teacher, right?

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I was a teacher.

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That's correct.

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So I taught for five years.

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I taught high school ninth graders, uh club, uh, excuse me, I've said club management.

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Um I taught uh government to ninth graders and then early world history to 11th graders.

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And so I got my master's degree in um 97 and the first, excuse me, 98.

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And the first summer break, the first day of summer break, following my master's degree, I looked in the Washington Post.

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And back then, excuse me, all of the newspapers had a thick employment section on Sunday.

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Washington Post mega job section was, you know, about two inches thick.

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And I I said to myself, well, what what is in here or what's gonna be in here that says Masters of Education?

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Opened it up, highlighted every job that said masters of education, and what I found was most of those jobs were in associations.

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At that time, I had no clue what an association was, other than the fact that I was, you know, national, a part of the National Education Association, or the one that was in my state at the time.

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So I applied to 12, got interviews at six, and I got offered a job at the I Bank Association of America, which their members were I Bank technicians where they would take corneals and cadavers, uh, corneas and eye tissue off of cadavers.

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So my job.

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Oh I remember you telling me that, and it still just gave me like the same chill.

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Something about eyeballs.

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Oh man.

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Listen, and they and they and they needed professional development course, and they had a certification program.

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And I got in there, and within like, I think Denny, within the first three months, I realized I might be in over my head here.

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Because I I she hired me and I had no experience.

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None.

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And so I was just, you know, keeping it afloat.

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And I I said, okay, well, I I remember telling the executive director, I'm I'm I'm way in over my head here.

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I'm gonna resign.

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And she said, okay.

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She said, well, why don't you go ahead and look for another job and you can stay here?

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And I was like, okay, great.

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So she's like, are you sure?

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Really?

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Like that's such a cool moment.

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And I feel like that sort of is like a segue into hospitality, also, in like a very strange way.

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Like I feel like that's a very hospitable thing to do.

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Like not many people, companies, or organizations would do that.

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Well, I definitely felt that, and that was one of the things about associations, very laid back, um, very uh understanding.

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And so, you know, I took that opportunity to look for some other positions, and I found a more entry-level position at the American Speech Language and Hearing Association, which is a large association here in Maryland.

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Um, membership of, at that time it was 110,000, and now I think it's probably closer to one thirty.

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And I was at accreditation coordinator, and I was on the ground doing site visits with SLPs and audiologists and going to colleges, and it was a great experience.

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I learned a lot about associations there.

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It's so weird.

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You went from from uh from the vision in the eyes to site visits.

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Sorry, I've I've told this story many times, and you're the only one who's put that together.

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That's that's today's episode.

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That's today's episode.

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Have a good day.

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God bless.

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Good night.

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Mic drop, I'm out.

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Oh well, no.

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Uh that is that is so look like the when you you told me that too, and then I remember the first thing it clicked was it was interesting.

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You just you you stuck to like the body almost.

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Like you went from the eyes to the ears, no, you know, you got you got all the you know all the senses working.

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Very good connection.

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You know, I never thought about that until you just said something.

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That was a very connection.

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Yeah.

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Interesting.

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Interesting.

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So, you know, because not everybody falls in love with certifications and associations and continuing ed.

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You know, what grabbed you about it?

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And then how did you get into, you know, how'd you find your way into CMAA?

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Well, it's a different way of educating.

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It's a different way of educating, it's a different demographic, right?

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So you go from educating youngsters to now um educating uh young adults and adults, and really people who have a passion for what they do, helping them down the path with that passion.

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And that's that's what I found interesting.

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Um being a part of association, you see the members and how passionate they are about uh their careers, and just wanting to help them grow in that career and grow professionally in that career, and that requires education.

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And so being able to create education programs or being able to help them down the path of certification, I just found that interesting.

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It's something that um, you know, it's a thing that we need in our society, right?

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We we don't always think about the borrower is licensed or certified.

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Our mechanics need to be licensed and certified.

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Those people who come in our homes doing HVAC, those people who are licensed and certified.

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And so really is a service, I guess, to our society to help make sure those individuals have the education that they need, the knowledge and skills to do their jobs in a way that provides a service to everyone else.

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Yeah.

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And I'm sure it's it's when you work with, you know, and not just the club managers, but when you were working with the different, you know, organizations and different people, it's I I would assume it's it's a different sort of education and a different sort of buy-in that you get as compared to when meaning, you know, when people want to learn and they want to be there for, you know, and they want to continue versus just you know having to be there.

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Or, you know, I'm not saying that there's a difference between like kids and adults and you know, young adults in school, but I think there's probably a difference when like people are like the the buy-in is there and they're excited and they're in the industry and they're excited for what's coming and they want to learn as much as they can and just be like a sponge.

00:08:14.319 --> 00:08:17.759
That's you know what I compare it to, I go back to the kids, right?

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So those are who are in ninth grade, their first year of high school, they don't necessarily have the buy-in, right?

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I mean, they know they have to take classes, they don't even know or think about what required what classes are required for graduation.

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They just know I'm here, mom and dad told me I have to be here.

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There are some who are directly um excited about their education and learning, but then there are so many who at high school level just like, I'm here, I want to graduate.

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You get those 11th graders who are now I've bought in because I gotta think about college, right?

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So now I'm really focused on getting the education, getting the lecture and the information from the teacher.

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And so that's the buy-in.

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I equate that to where we are now with certification, is that our members have gotten to this point where, okay, this is going to be my career.

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So now let me take it to a next to the next step.

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And whether that means getting all the professional development so that I can serve my members better, or making sure I get a certification so I can have advancement, mobility, um, I can tell someone that I have the knowledge and skills, whether it's the um recruiters or someone who has a job to offer me.

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That's the buy-in.

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And so once they have that, it's very easy to have their attention and provide the education for them to for them to achieve.

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It's really, it's really um from a from a from a education perspective and and being in front of our members, it's very interesting to see them and listen to our speakers, get the content, and then on the back end, like Friday or Monday following, hear them, oh my gosh, that was a great program.

00:10:15.679 --> 00:10:18.559
Everyone was just was so wonderful.

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The message they delivered, the information I got, the networking, it really makes it worthwhile that that, okay, I'm doing something right here, trying to educate them in this uh in this uh industry.

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Yeah, and you've you've probably found that people take in and learn differently too.

00:10:36.159 --> 00:10:44.080
So you know, you've probably been to some VMIs and some trainings, and you're like, man, you know, there was like a table or a certain person, you're like, they did not enjoy it at all.

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And they're like, they're like the first ones in your inbox, like that was the best event ever.

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And you're like, can you have told your face or something?

00:10:50.480 --> 00:10:53.519
Like, right, right, right, right, right.

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As my mom, my mom used to say, mind your face, right?

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Mind your face.

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Your face should not, your face shouldn't always say what you think or how you feel.

00:11:04.799 --> 00:11:09.279
Um, but when you do feel that excitement, feel free to let me know.

00:11:09.440 --> 00:11:10.320
Hey, I like it.

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You know, you don't have to wait until I see you at conference or I see you a year later, or I see you at another program.

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Man, that that program you had in Atlanta, that was great.

00:11:21.360 --> 00:11:21.759
Really?

00:11:21.919 --> 00:11:23.759
Because I thought you hated it.

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You know what I was like?

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I didn't get that from you, buddy.

00:11:27.440 --> 00:11:27.600
Yeah.

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Yeah.

00:11:28.559 --> 00:11:29.039
You're right.

00:11:29.440 --> 00:11:36.399
So uh remind the viewers, what exactly do you do uh at and for the CMAA?

00:11:36.960 --> 00:11:40.559
Okay, so my primary role is director of certification.

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That's my title, certification education.

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Primarily, I'm responsible for making sure our members get the certification, go down the certification path from beginning to end.

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And in that part of that is going to our BMI programs, our BMI programs that we have, which are required, four of them, go into those programs along with my other colleagues in the education department, making sure that um they meet the eligibility requirements and then get to the point of exam and helping them, not necessarily helping through the exam, but helping them prepare for the exam.

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So from beginning to end, uh, me and my colleague, Sonia Prepinabar, we're responsible for helping them with the certification process.

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That's that's our role.

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Aside from that, BMI is our business management institute.

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I'm responsible for the planning, coordination of those programs as well.

00:12:36.480 --> 00:12:38.559
So it's kind of a two-fold there.

00:12:38.879 --> 00:12:39.440
Yeah.

00:12:39.679 --> 00:12:39.919
Yeah.

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Is there is there is there anything that you do that people may not realize that you actually do, or maybe something that falls under your jurisdiction?

00:12:49.440 --> 00:12:50.480
Oh wow.

00:12:50.799 --> 00:13:08.960
Um, more more so just like thinking like are other things that you do for the association, maybe for the BMIs, for the you know, for everything that maybe that you you have your hands in or that you're involved in that maybe you know a normal club manager or a normal attendee might go, Oh, I didn't realize that's under his veil.

00:13:09.279 --> 00:13:10.879
Yeah, well, the BMIs.

00:13:11.039 --> 00:13:22.000
I don't think that our members realize that I'm responsible for the coordination of those a lot because my title is director of certification, but I don't think CCM.

00:13:22.159 --> 00:13:26.000
But yeah, um, I'm responsible for the coordination of the BMIs.

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We have five programs, and at I think four of the programs, we have an on-site coordinator.

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That on-site coordinator is she or he are the ones that pretty much work with the speakers to create the schedule ahead of time.

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But I have to work with them to make sure they have the dates, they have whatever presentations that they need, they have our online platform set up and have access to that to be able to upload documents to that.

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I do the correspondence between us and our members as they prepare to go to the programs, the correspondence for like confirmation when they register for the programs, the confirmation letter they receive.

00:14:13.120 --> 00:14:25.600
Um, if there are any incidents or issues that happen on site, I'm responsible for, um, as well as Jason Coney's fellow who is our chief learning officer.

00:14:25.919 --> 00:14:32.799
Um, there are a lot of things with the BMIs that I don't think our members realize that I have uh hands on.

00:14:33.279 --> 00:14:38.480
But um that's a good thing because they they're they're just on for the ride, Danny.

00:14:38.639 --> 00:14:39.679
They're just on for the ride.

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And it's a good thing.

00:14:41.120 --> 00:14:45.919
And sometimes if if they know you're involved with something, they're gonna want to talk to you about stuff.

00:14:46.000 --> 00:14:47.360
And it's like, no, there's other people for that.

00:14:47.519 --> 00:14:49.279
Like you need to tell me.

00:14:49.600 --> 00:14:50.240
Yeah, yeah.

00:14:50.320 --> 00:14:57.039
You can talk to someone else, talk to you know, the coordinator in Atlanta, or talk to someone in LA, but it doesn't have to always come to me.

00:14:57.120 --> 00:15:00.399
But it it does, and and it and it goes to my teammates as well.

00:15:00.480 --> 00:15:14.559
There's six of us in the department, and and they get emails and phone calls or whatever about things that happen at programs, and that gets passed on to me, and so I'm able to usually figure out a solution for some of those issues.

00:15:14.720 --> 00:15:15.039
Yeah.

00:15:15.759 --> 00:15:16.080
Yeah.

00:15:16.720 --> 00:15:17.279
That's awesome.

00:15:17.519 --> 00:15:19.919
Now let's get into some certification talk.

00:15:20.080 --> 00:15:23.519
You know, what you know, we're let's talk about the CCM.

00:15:23.759 --> 00:15:26.159
What's uh what does all of that entail?

00:15:26.320 --> 00:15:32.399
What goes into getting, becoming, and going through the CCM process?

00:15:33.039 --> 00:15:39.519
Well, I won't get into the weeds of it, but I will say we have five eligibility requirements.

00:15:39.759 --> 00:15:51.600
One of those is, as I mentioned, our four BMIs, uh attending World Conference, there's a professional membership requirement, and then there's some other programs that they have to attend.

00:15:51.840 --> 00:15:59.600
And once they've met all those, there's a require there's a credit requirement, once they've met all those requirements, then they're eligible to sit for the exam.

00:15:59.759 --> 00:16:09.039
And so what we tell most of our members is it it should take you about four to five years to complete the process.

00:16:09.279 --> 00:16:19.759
There are some of our members who want to be on a fast track and they think, oh, I'm gonna get through all the programs in two years or three years, and then I'm gonna sit for the exam really quickly.

00:16:19.919 --> 00:16:21.360
It doesn't typically work like that.

00:16:21.519 --> 00:16:36.240
The way our um, I would say the the creator of the BMI program and the certification program, um, they want to make sure that everyone goes through all of those programs so that they can get that that knowledge and skills.

00:16:36.320 --> 00:16:40.080
It's not just about you know rushing to get the designation.

00:16:40.240 --> 00:16:42.799
And so it's about the immersion of it all.

00:16:43.120 --> 00:16:44.000
It's the process.

00:16:44.240 --> 00:16:45.759
It's the process, right?

00:16:46.240 --> 00:16:49.279
Um but hopefully they go through the process.

00:16:50.159 --> 00:16:51.519
They go through our BMIs.

00:16:51.679 --> 00:17:00.480
The required BMIs would be club management, which is a let's say club, private club industry one-on-one program in Atlanta.

00:17:00.720 --> 00:17:08.960
There's leadership principles, which um is in uh in LA at the Jonathan Club, hosted by the Jonathan Club.

00:17:09.519 --> 00:17:13.279
Uh GMCO, which is on the campus of Michigan State University.

00:17:13.519 --> 00:17:16.480
And then those three are required, and then they have an elector.

00:17:16.880 --> 00:17:28.000
So it's either food and beverage at University of Houston, sports and recreation in Scottsdale, or BMI Golf in Jupiter, Florida at Adam's Cove Club.

00:17:28.240 --> 00:17:35.200
And um once they complete those and some other requirements, then they're eligible to sit for the exam.

00:17:35.359 --> 00:17:43.680
It's um it's an experience and education-driven uh eligibility process.

00:17:43.839 --> 00:17:44.160
Yeah.

00:17:44.400 --> 00:17:44.880
Yeah.

00:17:45.440 --> 00:17:45.759
Yeah.

00:17:46.079 --> 00:17:56.480
And in the test, is it uh, I believe you have to get at least a 70 in all of the aspects, in all of the competencies, in all of the different sections.

00:17:56.720 --> 00:18:07.759
So in even if it's, I believe, uh, and correct me if I'm wrong, you know, I probably know enough to be dangerous, but you know, um, if there's, you know, there's golf, there's pool, there's all those elements.

00:18:07.839 --> 00:18:16.240
And even if you don't have those at your particular facility, whatever, you still have to be encompassing and know all of the different practices, so to speak.

00:18:16.559 --> 00:18:17.359
Yeah, that's correct.

00:18:17.440 --> 00:18:22.480
There, there are currently our members are being tested on 10 competencies.

00:18:22.720 --> 00:18:28.640
They are educated on 11, which information technology is now 11, but we're not testing on that now.

00:18:28.799 --> 00:18:35.039
We're in the process of uh rewriting our contemporary called management book, but they're tested on 10.

00:18:35.440 --> 00:18:44.720
And you have to pass 70% overall, and at least, and this is where you are going, at least 50% in each competency.

00:18:44.880 --> 00:18:56.079
So if you get a 48 or 49 in, let's say accounting, and you got a 71 overall, you have to sit for the entire exam all over again.

00:18:56.640 --> 00:19:08.559
And now we yeah, and and and Denny, I'm gonna tell you, that's a tough conversation to have to tell someone, hey, you got uh 72, but you got a 48 in facilities.

00:19:08.880 --> 00:19:10.640
That's a tough conversation.

00:19:10.880 --> 00:19:13.200
But it happens, it happens.

00:19:13.359 --> 00:19:16.640
Um I've I've I've chatted to a few of those people.

00:19:20.960 --> 00:19:23.039
Um but but the exam is fair.

00:19:23.200 --> 00:19:32.799
And and if we get that close, if you have a 49 uh in one of the competencies, or let's say you have a 68, we will look at the exam.

00:19:32.960 --> 00:19:34.480
We'll we'll we do it automatically.

00:19:34.640 --> 00:19:46.960
Anyone who's that close will take a look at the exam to see if maybe one of the or a few of the questions scored or or functioned improperly, and and we will let you know.

00:19:47.039 --> 00:19:51.440
And we will give you those credits if that or those points, excuse me, if that was the case.

00:19:51.680 --> 00:20:00.720
We've got to the point now where we're pretty good with where the exam is, and so we haven't had anything technology-wise that could be an issue.

00:20:00.880 --> 00:20:01.200
That's good.

00:20:01.519 --> 00:20:04.960
So if it scores that tightly, it's it's true.

00:20:05.039 --> 00:20:07.039
It's gonna be termed, yeah.

00:20:07.839 --> 00:20:08.960
It's your own damn fault.

00:20:09.039 --> 00:20:09.759
No, right.

00:20:09.920 --> 00:20:10.720
That's what I say.

00:20:10.799 --> 00:20:12.319
You know, uh no, I don't say that.

00:20:12.480 --> 00:20:12.640
I don't.

00:20:13.039 --> 00:20:14.160
There's no way I can say that.

00:20:14.240 --> 00:20:14.799
I don't say that.

00:20:15.039 --> 00:20:15.599
No, no.

00:20:15.839 --> 00:20:19.920
Uh and and and CCM would be considered like the bachelor's degree, right?

00:20:20.160 --> 00:20:20.799
That is correct.

00:20:20.880 --> 00:20:21.680
Yeah, that is correct.

00:20:21.839 --> 00:20:27.680
So we have the CCE, I mean excuse me, CCM, which is our bachelor's degree, as you said.

00:20:27.839 --> 00:20:30.400
We have another another designation right after that.

00:20:30.480 --> 00:20:31.920
That's the Honor Society.

00:20:32.160 --> 00:20:37.759
Honor Society means you have earned 400 credits post-CCM.

00:20:37.839 --> 00:20:46.960
So from the time you get your CCM, let's just say your clock or your um your credits will go to zero.

00:20:47.200 --> 00:20:57.200
So once you get the 400 and you attend either tactical or strategic leadership, you will become uh an honor society member.

00:20:58.000 --> 00:21:02.079
Then we have the the chief, excuse me, certified chief executive.

00:21:02.160 --> 00:21:14.400
Now that's the master's level designation that has both a credit requirement as well as you have to attend both tactical and strategic leadership.

00:21:14.640 --> 00:21:21.039
And you must be in an executive, GM, COO level for at least five years.

00:21:21.279 --> 00:21:27.440
So it wants you to also have some experience to go on to that education as well.

00:21:28.240 --> 00:21:33.839
Uh and then the last one is the Master Club Manager, which is a doctorate level type program.

00:21:34.240 --> 00:21:56.319
You come up with a topic, you um work with the panel and the head of that committee, you kind of flesh out everything, and um they will edit your paper as you are going along, and then eventually, hopefully, that will be defended at conference and it will be approved, and you will become a master club management.

00:21:56.400 --> 00:22:02.480
We only have I think the number's 25 master club managers in total.

00:22:02.960 --> 00:22:03.680
The holy grail.

00:22:03.839 --> 00:22:04.160
Yeah.

00:22:04.400 --> 00:22:05.039
Yeah, that's it.

00:22:05.200 --> 00:22:05.599
That's it.

00:22:05.839 --> 00:22:06.160
That's it.

00:22:06.720 --> 00:22:10.000
What what kind of person actually chases that level?

00:22:10.480 --> 00:22:21.359
I I think it's someone who is a umone who has an extreme level of dedication and commitment to the industry.

00:22:22.240 --> 00:22:42.960
Someone who really is focused um on their professional development, someone who's very serious about their professional development, someone who also wants to enhance the industry because all of those manuscripts are always kept and we're and they're posted on our website.

00:22:43.039 --> 00:23:03.200
So anyone could take a look at them and see what what uh the topic was, and hopefully they've done their due diligence and their studying and their research to provide a really nice manuscript for everyone in the industry to go back and look at and read.

00:23:03.279 --> 00:23:10.240
So it's really someone who is at a different level of where they want to be educationally.

00:23:10.400 --> 00:23:10.720
Yeah.

00:23:10.960 --> 00:23:11.440
Yeah.

00:23:11.759 --> 00:23:12.000
Yeah.

00:23:13.119 --> 00:23:17.119
You have those people, then you have the ones who are like, eh, I'm too busy, I don't have time for this.

00:23:17.359 --> 00:23:18.640
You know, just the whole thing.

00:23:18.960 --> 00:23:35.279
Well, you know, but then and uh a lot of our members say that, and and they are busy, they are busy, but when you get to that point, I think in your career, you're you're delegating a lot of what you do, right?

00:23:35.440 --> 00:23:46.079
And so not to diminish their job their jobs or their daily tasks, but you do have a little more time personally and professionally to dig into something like that.

00:23:46.240 --> 00:23:54.160
And and and we even express that, you know, don't don't, even though we only have 25, take a look at it, consider it.

00:23:54.240 --> 00:24:02.319
Once you get that CCE, consider the MCM because it really may be something that it may not be what you think it is.

00:24:02.480 --> 00:24:07.920
It may not be the level of commitment of your time that that you think it is.

00:24:08.319 --> 00:24:16.799
Well, I'm sure people even for you for their CCM and their CCEs, you know, I'm sure you still get some of those people who say, Oh, I'm too busy, I don't have time for that.

00:24:17.039 --> 00:24:19.440
What do you what do you even say to those people?

00:24:20.319 --> 00:24:25.920
I I tell them to, it's a listen, certification is not for everyone.

00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:30.400
I I was just having this conversation with uh last week.

00:24:30.559 --> 00:24:31.920
It's not for everyone.

00:24:32.160 --> 00:24:33.279
It's not for everyone.

00:24:33.440 --> 00:24:36.559
You know, it and I mentioned your auto mechanic, right?

00:24:36.640 --> 00:24:41.680
Your auto mechanic, not every auto mechanic is certified, ASC certified.

00:24:41.920 --> 00:24:46.799
Um, but do we want to have someone certified who's working on my car?

00:24:47.039 --> 00:24:47.839
Uh yeah.

00:24:48.079 --> 00:24:58.319
I mean, it it it it tends to be that that person is more knowledgeable about everything in the automotive industry in terms of repairs.

00:24:59.359 --> 00:25:01.519
Do you have to be in order to be a mechanic?

00:25:01.680 --> 00:25:02.000
No.

00:25:02.319 --> 00:25:05.680
Do you have to be certified to be great in hospitality?

00:25:05.839 --> 00:25:07.200
No, you do not.

00:25:07.599 --> 00:25:16.640
But when you think about advancement, when you think about wanting to get the best education in terms of the industry, you're gonna get that.

00:25:17.039 --> 00:25:20.000
But also um the mobility.

00:25:20.720 --> 00:25:30.960
So many of our clubs, when they're looking to hire, whether it's a clubhouse manager or AGM, definitely at the GM level.

00:25:31.599 --> 00:25:34.240
They look in it for CCN preferred.

00:25:34.640 --> 00:25:38.000
And so it's not required, but it's preferred.

00:25:38.079 --> 00:25:45.839
And it's telling them that you have the knowledge and skills available to help take their club to another level.

00:25:46.000 --> 00:25:50.559
And so I would say, you know, it's it's a part of a process.

00:25:50.640 --> 00:25:55.359
It's not something that you're gonna run through quickly, but be a part of that process.

00:25:55.519 --> 00:25:57.759
Take the time to invest in yourself.

00:25:57.920 --> 00:26:12.559
If you're not, and if the club is willing to invest in you, you definitely, if they're gonna invest the financial um backing, you definitely should take advantage of that and and start the process of going towards your CCM.

00:26:12.640 --> 00:26:18.559
It's not, like I said, you know, it's not gonna be something that's gonna happen tomorrow, but it's gradual.

00:26:18.799 --> 00:26:19.599
It's gradual.

00:26:19.759 --> 00:26:20.720
So there's gonna be time.

00:26:20.799 --> 00:26:22.799
You can make time for it, hopefully.

00:26:23.119 --> 00:26:26.079
And for the most part, you're going to the meetings anyway.

00:26:26.240 --> 00:26:30.160
You're you're doing, you're showing up, you're doing most of the work, right?

00:26:30.240 --> 00:26:35.920
The hardest part is showing up, and you're showing up most of the time to a CCM event or C CMAA events.

00:26:36.000 --> 00:26:38.799
Like you're getting credit, you're doing just do the little extra work.

00:26:38.880 --> 00:26:40.079
Like just do the extra 10%.

00:26:40.480 --> 00:26:41.759
Like that's really all it is.

00:26:41.839 --> 00:26:43.759
Like showing up, just doing that.

00:26:43.920 --> 00:26:51.920
Are there any I don't know, like myths or misunderstandings that maybe people have about the certain like any of the certification processes?

00:26:52.319 --> 00:27:12.960
I I think uh some of the myths that we used to run into was because there was a time maybe years ago, maybe I don't know, maybe 13 years ago, where if you had if you had a bachelor's degree, you didn't have to take a certain number of programs, or you could not take the Atlanta program or not take the LA program.

00:27:13.200 --> 00:27:14.559
That doesn't exist anymore.

00:27:14.720 --> 00:27:21.440
We're at the point where the board wants everyone to take all of the programs so they can be uh well-rounded, right?

00:27:21.599 --> 00:27:21.839
Yeah.

00:27:22.160 --> 00:27:25.359
Um, I I don't know that there are any myths per se.

00:27:25.519 --> 00:27:31.359
It's just things that are focused on our eligibility requirements.

00:27:31.440 --> 00:27:36.400
There's some hearsay and speculation, things, just you know, word of mouth.

00:27:36.640 --> 00:27:40.480
People playing phone and they're getting the wrong information.

00:27:40.720 --> 00:27:50.240
So what we really are trying to do, Denny, is push them towards the website, but you know, not everyone wants to read, not everyone wants to take the time to read.

00:27:50.559 --> 00:27:53.680
Or we'll do the certification presentation.

00:27:53.839 --> 00:27:58.799
I've done several at the chapter level, I've done several at the BMIs.

00:27:58.960 --> 00:28:15.279
We even have a YouTube video where I've done that presentation, and we just ask them to, if they have any questions, like you're saying, that there's some misinformation out there, just reach out to us and we'll answer that, whether it's a phone call or or an email.

00:28:15.440 --> 00:28:23.839
We can, you know, provide the information you need so that there are no you know gaps in in terms of uh information.

00:28:24.240 --> 00:28:31.839
Um that's I I know our our communication department does a great job at putting out a lot of information.

00:28:32.240 --> 00:28:36.480
And as you know, um some people have the opportunity.

00:28:36.640 --> 00:28:38.480
I will say I'll say it this way.

00:28:38.720 --> 00:28:48.799
Some people have the opportunity to read it, some people don't have the opportunity to read it, but they need to take that opportunity and read it because there may be some stuff that they're just missing, right?

00:28:49.119 --> 00:28:49.440
Yeah.

00:28:50.160 --> 00:28:51.440
Just per your last email.

00:28:51.519 --> 00:28:52.240
No, I'm kidding.

00:28:52.400 --> 00:29:01.839
Uh it's it's gonna be really cool seeing so many people go through and start and complete the journey.

00:29:02.079 --> 00:29:12.559
You know, what what do you think changes in people from day one to when they finally get those letters after their name?

00:29:12.960 --> 00:29:15.359
Um, I think it's in that process.

00:29:15.519 --> 00:29:18.400
It's the it's their development in that process.

00:29:18.480 --> 00:29:26.160
And it's not just the education, it's the relationships that they build when they go to the programs or when they go to World Conference.

00:29:26.400 --> 00:29:30.799
It's the relationships they build, it's their own development, right?

00:29:30.880 --> 00:29:34.480
They start to change as a manager.

00:29:35.119 --> 00:29:40.240
They um get not just art education, but they learn from other people.

00:29:40.400 --> 00:29:50.319
And so by the time they get to that point where they're ready to walk across the stage, they're they're um they're far more professional.

00:29:50.640 --> 00:29:53.440
They're far more experienced in the industry.

00:29:53.599 --> 00:29:59.839
They've been exposed to a lot of different things, whether it's from our education or from conversation.

00:30:00.400 --> 00:30:02.000
That they've had with their peers.

00:30:02.240 --> 00:30:06.880
They've had the opportunity to talk to some of our seasoned managers, right?

00:30:06.960 --> 00:30:14.000
Some of our maybe their MCM or CCE and learn from them, take get advice from them.

00:30:14.640 --> 00:30:16.880
And so you can kind of see that, right?

00:30:16.960 --> 00:30:28.799
You can see those who are middle managers, clubhouse manager, F and B director, and how they evolve into something bigger and better.

00:30:28.960 --> 00:30:31.440
And it's really, it's it's quite impressive.

00:30:31.599 --> 00:30:37.200
And and and also when they become more involved in the association, right?

00:30:37.359 --> 00:30:39.759
They become a volunteer in the association.

00:30:39.920 --> 00:30:42.640
They start getting involved on national committees.

00:30:42.799 --> 00:30:48.960
They become more involved at the chapter level, being on some of those committees, or maybe even a chapter board.

00:30:49.119 --> 00:31:01.519
So it's really impressive to see how much they love CMAA, how much they respect CMAA and all that the association is able to provide them.

00:31:01.920 --> 00:31:14.960
I mean, I think that's one of the things that, as I, as an association professional, have come here from other associations and seen how much the members love what the association does for them.

00:31:15.119 --> 00:31:16.720
And that's just willing to get back.

00:31:16.799 --> 00:31:19.519
They're willing to get back, be a part of it.

00:31:19.839 --> 00:31:23.279
They are super active and super enthused.

00:31:23.599 --> 00:31:30.319
But to see that development from the beginning to where they walk across the stage, all of that is in there, and it's it's quite impressive.

00:31:30.400 --> 00:31:33.839
And those are people that you tend to hold on to.

00:31:34.319 --> 00:31:38.480
You know their faces, you know their names, you see them at all the events.

00:31:38.720 --> 00:31:44.880
Those are the ones that are really growing, but they're growing inside the association.

00:31:44.960 --> 00:31:46.640
And it's it's impressive to see.

00:31:46.799 --> 00:31:47.359
It really is.

00:31:47.599 --> 00:31:48.160
Yeah.

00:31:48.480 --> 00:32:01.200
I think I remember you telling me that, you know, uh the younger managers, the younger professionals, you know, they're also starting to show up different, a little bit more hungrier, more intentional.

00:32:01.440 --> 00:32:08.559
What do you do do you think it's it's the shifts in the association in the industry that are kind of helping with that?

00:32:08.640 --> 00:32:17.200
And maybe, you know, and just kind of like, you know, in terms of the education and how just everyone is showing up, do you think it's forcing them to show up different also?

00:32:17.519 --> 00:32:19.599
Yeah, I I think it's I think it's partly that.

00:32:19.759 --> 00:32:30.640
I think that hunger and desire is a willing to is a willingness to be a part of an industry that has a lot to offer them.

00:32:31.200 --> 00:32:38.480
Um I think they see the private club industry as something that is a place where they can really grow.

00:32:38.640 --> 00:32:44.640
And so because they see that, they wanna they wanna take uh take it seriously.

00:32:45.119 --> 00:32:50.400
I don't want to say that in in the past that our managers didn't take it seriously because they did.

00:32:50.559 --> 00:32:54.720
But it's a different level of commitment, it's a different level of focus that I've seen.

00:32:54.960 --> 00:33:18.559
You're not just gonna have um, and I don't know the numbers, but you know, over the last several years, we've had the membership just grow like weeds to where now, I guess we're somewhere hovering around that 8,000 number mark where the conference conference is, I think last year's conference was maybe a little above 4,000.

00:33:18.799 --> 00:33:28.000
You're not gonna you're not gonna have that from people who aren't dedicated, who aren't committed to their professional development.

00:33:28.160 --> 00:33:31.440
And it's really the younger people who they're driven.

00:33:31.599 --> 00:33:32.960
I mean, they're they're driven, man.

00:33:33.039 --> 00:33:34.000
They they want more.

00:33:34.160 --> 00:33:34.960
They want more.

00:33:36.480 --> 00:33:52.559
They also feel like, and I think there's a generation that feels like whether I've come out of college with a degree, or whether I've been in the in industry for 20 something or 15 years from the ground, that I'm here.

00:33:53.039 --> 00:33:54.000
I want more.

00:33:54.240 --> 00:33:55.759
I see that there's so much more.

00:33:55.920 --> 00:34:00.640
I see that I could be a GM or maybe an AGM somewhere, and they want that.

00:34:00.720 --> 00:34:05.359
And they they know they have to have a certain level of commitment and focus in order to get that.

00:34:05.519 --> 00:34:07.920
And it's and that again is impressive.

00:34:09.119 --> 00:34:13.920
And this is me, you know, I'm I'm just I'm just shooting from the hip and just you know, making like assumptions.

00:34:14.079 --> 00:34:29.440
But, you know, do you think it's maybe also like I don't want to say the vibe is changing, but now it's you know, it's it's changing from that old school mentality of like, oh, you gotta put in your, you know, maybe one day you can be here, you know, my level if you're here for 20 years.

00:34:29.519 --> 00:34:43.440
Like I feel like like the the it's changed a bit where if you are people like hungry and like intentional, but like if you have that, you don't necessarily have to wait the 20 years to get the coveted position.

00:34:43.519 --> 00:34:53.119
Like there might be a club, you know, if you put in the work, do the effort, you know, you're around good people, you know, surround yourself with amazing people, like you can get to where you want to be possibly quicker.

00:34:53.199 --> 00:34:57.599
Um, you don't have to like you know be you know beholden to one single person.

00:34:57.760 --> 00:34:58.480
Um I don't know.

00:34:58.880 --> 00:35:00.400
I don't know if that made any sense at all.

00:35:00.559 --> 00:35:39.280
Maybe you're trying to put hopefully you picked up what I was trying to put put down, but I feel like you know, uh, and I don't know if it doesn't make just be me just from when we're going to a BMI, but just from listening to other people, I also feel like maybe the vibe has changed in those as well, or just different educations where I wouldn't say people would say it was like half vocation, half education, but I feel like now people just, you know, me talking to club managers and people, and you know, when I when I interact, it's they're more locked in and the and the BMIs and the educations, like, yes, it's still fun, you know, there's fun elements and all that, but like I feel like it is like a lot more locked in and people are more dialed in.

00:35:39.599 --> 00:35:42.480
I I think you are onto something there.

00:35:42.800 --> 00:35:57.519
Uh there is, and and again, I'm I'm I'm only 10 years into this position, but there is, I think, uh, a feeling that yes, I can achieve quickly.

00:35:57.679 --> 00:36:00.000
I can get into certain positions quickly.

00:36:00.159 --> 00:36:02.079
Because there are a lot of opportunities out there.

00:36:02.239 --> 00:36:04.239
There are a lot of opportunities out there.

00:36:04.480 --> 00:36:12.639
There are there's a there there can be a lot of um movement and transition and put between these some of these jobs.

00:36:12.800 --> 00:36:17.440
And I think the members see that and they want to be a part of that, right?

00:36:17.599 --> 00:36:30.400
You get a taste of something, whether it's you know, uh a dining room supervisor, you want that next, you want to be an FB manager, you uh you FB manager, you want to be now clubhouse manager or AGM.

00:36:30.559 --> 00:36:34.079
Like you get that taste for it and you're looking for the next thing.

00:36:34.239 --> 00:36:40.320
And some of them see that I might be able to get that more, you know, more quickly than I it was in the past.

00:36:40.400 --> 00:36:53.440
You know, yeah, it's not um it's not the way you have uh a GM or someone like that who's saying, you stick with me for X amount of years, and you'll you you will climb that ladder.

00:36:53.679 --> 00:36:56.559
No, you could go all over the country, right?

00:36:56.719 --> 00:37:13.280
You can go wherever you want to go, wherever you'd like to be, and probably achieve the same level of climbing, ascending that ladder as you would probably more efficiently than just staying in one club for 15 years.

00:37:13.440 --> 00:37:16.320
So there are opportunities all over the country, Danny.

00:37:16.480 --> 00:37:23.280
We have clubs, you know, what, close to 3,000 clubs, you know, all in within our membership.

00:37:23.519 --> 00:37:26.880
And so there are opportunities all over, and people are looking for those.

00:37:27.039 --> 00:37:30.559
And so part of that is what they know is the CCM.

00:37:30.719 --> 00:37:36.239
If I want to be a part of that, let me jump into that CCM program and get the education.

00:37:36.400 --> 00:37:38.239
My GM says I need it, right?

00:37:38.400 --> 00:37:53.360
So every, like if I'm here in uh Alabama, I'm at a club in Alabama and someone got me started on the BMIs, and I'm gonna move to Maryland and get a job there, I'm gonna have conversations with those uh leaders in Maryland and say, hey, I'm a part of CMAA.

00:37:53.760 --> 00:37:55.119
Are you gonna support this?

00:37:55.360 --> 00:37:56.559
Yeah, we'll support it.

00:37:56.719 --> 00:37:57.199
Great.

00:37:57.519 --> 00:37:58.639
Let me jump in here.

00:37:58.719 --> 00:38:02.960
And you know, two, three years later, there's an opportunity to be an AGM somewhere.

00:38:03.039 --> 00:38:06.239
I'm gonna go to Connecticut, I'm gonna have those same conversations.

00:38:06.480 --> 00:38:07.840
Do you guys support CMAA?

00:38:08.079 --> 00:38:09.679
Yeah, we do we support CMA.

00:38:09.840 --> 00:38:10.559
Okay, great.

00:38:10.719 --> 00:38:14.880
Now that's in my budget, and I can go continue my my education.

00:38:15.039 --> 00:38:19.840
So yeah, it I I think it does, it is different now.

00:38:20.239 --> 00:38:36.559
I'm not in the industry, so I really can't speak to that directly, but just from what I feel and what I see, and how many how I see our demographics have changed in the BMIs, how many more women are in BMIs now than they were before.

00:38:36.880 --> 00:38:42.000